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Post by whatagain on May 16, 2021 16:31:54 GMT
Apparently it all started because of 7 families being evicted from Jerusalem. Well, it started in 48, but the last incidents derive from the above. The families live in old city, near the holy sepulchre and El Aqsa mosque. Since 1950 some, but are accused to have stolen the places from Jewish families.
Anyway at ine point the Istaelis entered the mosque (unclear to me why) and had quite a fight in it, using smoke grenades etc.
Palestinians were not pleased and the ones in the Gaza corridor fired rockets towards Israel. Israelis were not pleased and sent planes bombing the zone, brought some arty (saw pics of M109, I commanded one in the army) and are now recalling reservists.
Already dozens of deads. Children among them... Not smelling nice.
My personal opinion : Israel is not really trying to find a way with the Palestinians... Was it necessary to evict families who owned the place since 70 years ? Was it necessary to fight in a holy mosque ?
More to come I fear and both peoples going away from each others a little bit more...
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Post by kerouac2 on May 16, 2021 16:33:24 GMT
The Israelis are so wrong.
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Post by bixaorellana on May 16, 2021 18:14:23 GMT
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Post by Biddy on May 16, 2021 18:50:28 GMT
I believe that Bibi has engineered this whole scenario to cling on to power. Evicting families from their homes, acting like storm troopers at a Muslum holy site what kind of reaction did he expect? Eventually a cease fire will come about but the sectarian violence in mixed Israeli towns will be tough to quell. It's a multi faceted problem. The neighboring Arab states certainly don't want an emboldened Hamas on their doorstep either. There is no easy solution.
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Post by lugg on May 16, 2021 19:41:29 GMT
I am just trying to understand this current situation and so I am reading various reports / viewpoints. I have a view already that I need to test out ...( too much lassitude given to Israel by too many nations , mostly because of their guilt re the holocaust) but like others I am horrified at the deaths which seem to be non - discriminated in the main, according to the press.
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Post by mickthecactus on May 16, 2021 20:09:26 GMT
I think Biddy is spot on.
This has been a mess since 1948 when the British Empire was unravelling and we made a total shambles of Palestine and India around the same time.
I have to say I am pro Jewish having hsd many Jewish clients in my working years who were all delightful and counted amongst my best friends.
Israel are of course paranoid after Germany tried to eliminate them in WWII and Hamas and Iran make no secret that they want to do the same.
Nevertheless, the situation is awful and I can't see it being resolved without more misery.
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Post by kerouac2 on May 16, 2021 20:11:59 GMT
One analyst was saying that the biggest problem this time is that the United States basically only concentrates on one 'big' situation at a time and the administration is currently obsessed with China, so the Middle East can go to hell. Obviously, that is an over simplification, but there is a grain of truth. When I was growing up, the Soviet Union was the principal obsession.
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Post by kerouac2 on May 16, 2021 20:14:24 GMT
I have to say I am pro Jewish I hope you understand that Pro Jewish and Pro Israel are not necessarily the same thing.
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Post by Biddy on May 16, 2021 20:16:55 GMT
Wasn't the original Palestine British territory carved out of the Ottoman Empire? My recollections from History class are foggy at this point. Originally I think many nations supported Israel as it was seen as a stable democracy in an unstable area. Those viewpoints have changed over the years. I don't see the US cutting the financial chord just quite yet but support for Israel is dwindling. IDK how the situation can be defused. But what we are seeing on TV and reading is appalling.
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Post by mickthecactus on May 16, 2021 20:34:05 GMT
Of course I do K2.
Before 1948 I think the UN proposed a 2 nation state which Israel accepted but Palestine didn't. We we were left to sort it out but walked away and Israel took the UN option unilaterally.
Various wars have left Palestine with less and less.
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Post by questa on May 17, 2021 4:27:50 GMT
It all started when in WW1 Lawrence was told to gather the warring Arab tribes into a fighting force to take out the Turks. He was told that in return for their aid they would be given Palestine as a homeland. This he promised them in the name of the British King.
Unknown to him the French and British weasels Picot and Sykes had drawn up a map dividing Palestine between those 2 countries, creating Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Lebanon and all the now Middle East.
When Lawrence was awarded a VC he declined it saying that he couldn't take it from the King whose name he had dishonored. At the Treaty of Versailles he wore his Arab prince's clothes to draw attention to the injustice being done.
Post war, the Arabs tried to fight for their lands while the Anglo-French had a new problem. The destruction of Europe in WW1 had sent thousands of Jews walking across Europe to reach their Holy Land. The newcomers were better farmers and soon the Arabs were selling their lands to them.
There was a military problem as the Arabs tried to get their lands back after it was carved up in the Sykes-Picot agreement. The British had years of skirmishes in Palestine.
One of the "causes" of WW2 was the outcome of the Versailles Treaty. Germany was hit with totally impossible reparation costs that added to the shame of defeat. The Jews were already moving to Israel or other countries so they carried the blame and the holocaust.
The Israelis had built up their Kibbutzim and a strong defense system. At the UN meeting in 1945 they asked to be admitted as a full member. Communal shock, guilt and pity led to their acceptance and subsequent military actions.
As Israel got stronger it made its own laws and rules and ignored any directions from UN There are scores of requests, warnings, fines and sanctions that the UN has issued against The State of Israel, but they are ignored. The rest of the Middle East should be more developed as it has better lands and oil revenue, however the corruption and graft of the princes is holding their countries back.
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Post by bjd on May 17, 2021 6:15:01 GMT
Whatever the validity of the main part of your story, I think this emphasis on Lawrence as some hero who could promise land and countries to various Arab nations completely ridiculous. The British Empire was already going to hell in a handbasket by this time and I find it amazing that all these various empires could just draw lines on maps and say, "Well, you can have this bit here, you get this part."
At this point, Jews were not walking across Europe -- that happened after WW2. There were however Jews leaving Eastern Europe because of anti-semitism, poverty and the Zionist movement. The Brits tried to keep them out, because they had Arab "clients" they also had to satisfy.
During WW2, there were several Jewish defence groups that attacked British troops, and quite a lot of Jewish soldiers left the Polish army that was under British rule and stayed to fight for an independent Israeli state. Israel was born out of a mixture of idealism and violence, and unfortunately the violence has taken over.
As far as Arab countries go, they pay lip service to supporting the Palestinian cause when it suits them, but are all out for themselves. See the agreements signed with Israel in the past year or two.
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Post by mossie on May 17, 2021 7:02:18 GMT
It is absolutely disgraceful the way the US and ourselves pander to the Israelis and let them get away with robbery and murder. Remember the people in Gaza are called refugees, that is because the jews turned them out of all the best land in Israel. In addition both parties are cheats and liars and it is difficult to get at the truth.
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Post by fumobici on May 17, 2021 14:33:49 GMT
Since 1950 some, but are accused to have stolen the places from Jewish families. Takes a lot of cheek for any Israeli to make complaints about Arabs stealing their homes. What utter lack of self-awareness and humility that puts on display. Israel is a profoundly racist, hateful, apartheid state and I am ashamed my tax money is used to support it.
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Post by kerouac2 on May 17, 2021 14:48:09 GMT
One thing that distresses me is how some of these elements seem to confirm terrible things that many people have always felt about Jews. Is history doomed to repeat itself?
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Post by bjd on May 17, 2021 15:35:01 GMT
One thing I find distressing is that the Israeli peace movement seems to have disappeared.
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Post by fumobici on May 17, 2021 15:49:08 GMT
Jews accusing other jews of being anti-Semitic for acknowledging reality has to be the most absurd thing I've heard in a while. What nasty, horrible people the right-wing pro-Israelis are.
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Post by kerouac2 on May 17, 2021 16:27:12 GMT
I have not had all that many friends who call themselves Jewish, simply because I don't have many friends who identify with any religion. Jews seem to find it more difficult to divest themselves of the label than most other religions because no matter how much they want to be neutral, other people call them Jews, often just because of their last name ("Cohen" is a tough one.). Anyway, I have had two very close and dear friends of Jewish origin over the years. One of them went with her sister around 1975. They still had an emigrated aunt or uncle there to visit. The other friend was a free spirit who was attracted to certain aspects of Israeli society and wanted to see it for herself. ("I'm going to spend some time at a kibbutz.")
I am still shocked by their reports almost 50 years later. I don't know if things have changed. I don't know if they overreacted to things they saw. I don't know if I choose strange friends. But both of them told me, almost in the same words "that country should be bombed out of existence." The friend who spent a few months at a kibbutz added "those people are worse than Nazis." She was too young to be an expert on Nazis, but still...
So I have never known what to think. My closest friend, who has an Arab name (even though he is only 50%) went to Israel around 1990 to visit a friend who was working at an NGO in Gaza. He never told me much about Gaza, but he really enjoyed Tel Aviv.
This is all so confusing.
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Post by cheerypeabrain on May 17, 2021 17:33:01 GMT
My son studied the Israeli-Palestinian conflict(s) at university and it drove him crazy. I remember asking him once..."who is in the right?" ...his response was that theyre both wrong. It's possible to sympathise and condemn both sides..it's complicated.
One of my ex colleagues drove an ambulance packed with medical supplies to his fellow muslims in Palestine. He raised the money to kit it out and fill it with essential equipment etc we all chipped in. There was a convoy of several ambulances driven by scientists, doctors, delivery drivers, post office workers etc Almost all of the volunteers were of Indian/Pakiatani descent. Muslims, Sikhs and Hindus.
It all went very well but on the way home three were arrested, including my ex colleague, in Tel Aviv and held for 3 days on suspicion of being terrorists.
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Post by bjd on May 17, 2021 18:10:31 GMT
Over the years, I have had several really good Jewish friends but no Arab friends, so I would generally tend to sympathize with Israel. But also over the years, it has become obvious that Israel's politics, the right-wing fanatics (many of whom come from North America), the treatment of Palestinians and other immigrant groups have made it a country that is difficult to appreciate. I'm sure it was much better back in the 1960s and 70s when young people from many different countries went to stay on a kibbutz for a few months. Those I knew who did so were pretty positive about it, not like Kerouac's friends. However, they did all leave again.
I spent 10 days in Israel in 1997, visiting friends who were working there. Like anywhere else, there are nice people and some not nice people.
"It all went very well but on the way home three were arrested, including my ex colleague, in Tel Aviv and held for 3 days on suspicion of being terrorists."
It's true that the security services are really tough and really efficient. I was given the third degree upon departure at the airport because I was alone and not part of a group. And one day, the bus I was going to Masada on broke down on the highway and within 3 minutes there were security people checking to see if the bus hadn't stopped because of trouble.
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Post by kerouac2 on May 17, 2021 18:23:59 GMT
Actually, in my travel days (which I hope will return one of these days), it did not take me long to discover that Israeli tourists were the worst in the world, in my opinion. They go to places like Thailand or Vietnam and treat the locals as if they are all Palestinians. "You are inferior and I will dominate you, just like I learned in the army." And then they will actually wink at European or North American tourists in the same place to indicate that we are all accomplices in keeping these inferior people under our boot. I got into quite a few arguments with them when they had acted inappropriately and they would always say things like "you don't know how it is for us."
But since I'm on the subject of bad tourists, I must mention the Swedish ("We are superior to everybody and you other Europeans live in inferior countries.") and the Dutch ("We have already been everywhere and are just returning out of boredom and because it's cheap."). Naturally I must give a special nod to the French ("Everything is terrible, especially the food, but we like to complain so we're sure to return to complain again.") and the British ("I know all of the best places to get shit-faced, but I don't remember what I did last night.") The Italians, the South Americans, the Spanish and the Belgians were delightfully easygoing.
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Post by bjd on May 17, 2021 18:32:09 GMT
In South America, Israeli tourists have a bad reputation for trying to always get a bargain and not pay the asking price. Lots of them had just finished their 3-year military service and spent months or a year travelling around an area considered cheap since they mostly don't have much money after the army.
However, one night in Argentina, my husband and I ended up sharing some awful accommodation with 3 Israelis (a woman and 2 men) and had a great time. They were really nice and friendly and we ate together and spent hours talking about life in Israel and elsewhere. They were interested that my husband had spent 5 years in Lebanon and asked him about life there. One of my nice memories of that trip.
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Post by onlyMark on May 17, 2021 19:15:10 GMT
the British ("I know all of the best places to get shit-faced, but I don't remember what I did last night." Yes, Mick and Mossie have a lot to answer for. Mind you I think Mossie is half French and Mick is half Spanish, so they'll only get half cut.
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Post by cheerypeabrain on May 17, 2021 19:15:33 GMT
My son studied the Israeli-Palestinian conflict(s) at university and it drove him crazy. I remember asking him once..."who is in the right?" ...his response was that theyre both wrong. It's possible to sympathise and condemn both sides..it's complicated.
One of my ex colleagues drove an ambulance packed with medical supplies to his fellow muslims in Palestine. He raised the money to kit it out and fill it with essential equipment etc we all chipped in. There was a convoy of several ambulances driven by scientists, doctors, delivery drivers, post office workers etc Almost all of the volunteers were of Indian/Pakiatani descent. Muslims, Sikhs and Hindus.
It all went very well but on the way home three were arrested, including my ex colleague, in Tel Aviv and held for 2 days on suspicion of being terrorists. They still did it again. The ex colleague got a job as a teacher in a Saudi school soon after and I've not spoken to him since.
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Post by fumobici on May 17, 2021 21:20:55 GMT
I'm sorry but dismissively saying "both sides are at fault" or similar regarding Israel-Palestine is such a cop out. It's like saying "All Lives Matter" in the U.S.
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Post by questa on May 18, 2021 0:08:07 GMT
Bali is the place that attracts all types of tourists from the disgusting ozzies in the south to the serious art and dance students around the hills. The footpaths are narrow the women come from the market with large baskets balanced on their heads. So...who steps off the curb to let the other pass? I always do, and get a flick of the eyebrows which says "Thanks".
Usually the Swiss do but most of the Euro mob barge along pushing others out of the way. Brits are looking around but don't see the woman until they get tangled with her, but apologize. Merkins will stand back but then carry on about the condition of narrow paths and women having to carry heavy stuff on their heads.
The real test is how visitors react to being stuck in gridlock traffic jams!
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Post by bixaorellana on May 18, 2021 1:52:15 GMT
I am just trying to understand this current situation and so I am reading various reports / viewpoints. I have a view already that I need to test out ...( too much lassitude given to Israel by too many nations , mostly because of their guilt re the holocaust) but like others I am horrified at the deaths which seem to be non - discriminated in the main, according to the press. Agree. I don't know if guilt over the holocaust is still pertinent in giving Israel a free pass, but certainly automatically relating the country of Israel to Judaism doesn't make any contemporary sense. It's like assuming all people from the US are Anabaptists or Puritans or whoever the first wave of European immigrants were. Properly, people from Israel are called Israelis, not Jews. My own opinion of the US's long championing of Israel has nothing to do with the holocaust, but with politics at the high money level. Also, the US likes for the world to see how strong little bitty bully-boy Israel is because it gets all that great weaponry for its big brother, the US. Anyway, this is nauseating, although some of it may indicate the tide is turning against rubber-stamping approval of help for Israel: www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/05/17/biden-administration-approves-735-million-weapons-sale-israel/ (click headline below to access text if necessary) {Biden administration approves $735 million weapons sale to Israel}Congress was officially notified of the deal on May 5, only a week before hostilities in the region intensified By Jacqueline Alemany, Karoun Demirjian, & John Hudson May 17, 2021 at 5:21 p.m. CDT The Biden administration has approved the sale of $735 million in precision-guided weapons to Israel, raising red flags for some House Democrats who are part of the shifting debate over the U.S. government’s support for the Israeli government of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Congress was officially notified of the proposed sale on May 5, according to three people based on Capitol Hill familiar with the notification. That was nearly a week before hostilities intensified between Israel and Hamas in the Middle East. House Foreign Affairs Committee Chair Gregory W. Meeks (D-N.Y.) called a virtual emergency meeting Monday evening with House Democrats on the committee to discuss the sale to Israel and the conflict more broadly, according to a person familiar with the meeting. Meeks told lawmakers that he was caught unaware of this weapons sale to Israel, the person said. [Israel-Hamas conflict hurtles into its second week as cease-fire talks struggle] The Biden administration called for a cease-fire on Monday evening after stopping short of doing so earlier in the day. It has said Israel has the right to defend itself against Hamas — a position that a majority in Congress has previously supported. But a new generation of House Democrats more open to questioning Washington’s support of Netanyahu is raising some concerns about continuing to provide weaponry to Israel with little oversight and scrutiny. Some lawmakers want to know more about the proposed weapons sale, and its timing, suggesting it be used as leverage for a cease-fire. “It would be appalling for the Biden Administration to go through with $735 million in precision-guided weaponry to Netanyahu without any strings attached in the wake of escalating violence and attacks on civilians,” Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.), a member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, said in a statement Monday, responding to the The Washington Post’s reporting. “If this goes through this will be seen as a green light for continued escalation and will undercut any attempts at brokering a ceasefire.” Rep. Joaquin Castro (D-Tex.), who also sits on the committee, echoed Omar’s concerns about the “timing of this weapons sale” and the “message it will send to Israel and the world about the urgency of a cease fire, and the open questions about the legality of Israel’s military strikes that have killed civilians in Gaza.” “The United States government must not exacerbate this horrific violence. The American people expect Congress to take a hard look at how military aid and weapon sales are used and ensure that human rights are upheld,” Castro said in a statement. A group of House Democrats is weighing how best to raise pressure on the administration over the proposed sale. It’s not easy for Congress to block arms sales, and it remains unclear how lawmakers will proceed as the window to muster a joint congressional resolution of disapproval for this sale has closed. The administration is required to inform Congress of such commercial arms sales. Once the formal notification is made, lawmakers have 15 days to object with a nonbinding resolution of disapproval. “There are only four days left at this point in the expedited 15-day congressional review window, and any [joint resolution of disapproval] is required to be considered by committee of jurisdiction for 10 days before being eligible for discharge,” said a Democratic congressional aide. “So the window for this proposed commercial sale has technically closed.”
Congress has never successfully blocked a proposed arms sale through a joint resolution of disapproval, according to the Congressional Research Service, although it has passed them in recent years. Former president Donald Trump vetoed three resolutions passed by Congress in 2019 to stop arms sales benefiting Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates after the House and Senate voted to block the arms deals worth more than $8 billion. The nonbinding resolutions can be passed with a majority vote in either chamber, but need a two-thirds majority to override a presidential veto.
The bulk of the proposed sale to Israel, according to three people based on Capitol Hill familiar with the notification, is of Joint Direct Attack Munitions, or JDAMS — kits that transform so-called “dumb” bombs into precision-guided missiles. Israel, which has purchased substantial quantities of JDAMS from the United States in the past, has said its airstrikes in Gaza are precision guided to avoid hitting civilians. But Israeli officials charge Hamas with using civilians in the heavily populated enclave of Gaza as human shields.
The sale also includes GBU-39 small diameter bombs, which are also used against Palestinians, according to two people who spoke on the condition of anonymity to disclose sensitive information.
Congress may have received formal notice on May 5 of the commercial deal in which Boeing will provide the weapons to Israel. But some Foreign Affairs lawmakers were caught off guard over the weekend when they first learned of the sale, according to three congressional staffers with knowledge of the private conversations, who added that the lack of transparency around arms sales has been a reoccurring problem under the committee chaired by Meeks.
“There’s zero transparency on the House Foreign Affairs Committee and sensitive deals are regularly approved without scrutiny,” said a House Democratic aide who works on the committee.
The intraparty backlash against the proposed sale further highlights the growing divide among Democrats on U.S. policy toward Israel.
“There’s truth to the notion that there’s major shifts in the party about how we rubber stamp Israel writ large,” noted a Democratic Senate aide.
But even those who normally defend Israel condemned the country’s military actions that occurred over the weekend. Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman Robert Menendez (D-N.J.) released a statement on Saturday after an airstrike targeted and destroyed a building housing the Associated Press and other media outlets in Gaza City.
“I am deeply troubled by reports of Israeli military actions that resulted in the death of innocent civilians in Gaza as well as Israeli targeting of buildings housing international media outlets,” Menendez tweeted.
“While recent transactions were not related to current events on the ground, we absolutely should do all that we can to support our ally Israel in the face of ongoing terrorist activities that threaten their security,” said ranking Foreign Relations member James E. Risch (R-Idaho). “Under no circumstance should anyone think what is happening over there is anything but Iranian-supported terrorism against Israel. My support for Israel is unwavering in the face of this terrorist activity. I am disappointed that some of my colleagues in Congress would call this enduring partnership into question.”
Israel’s military claimed the building was targeted because it housed “Hamas military intelligence assets,” who had been using the presence of civilian journalists as “human shields.” No evidence was provided for those claims.
Secretary of State Antony Blinken told reporters at a news conference in Copenhagen on Monday he has not yet seen any evidence from Israel of Hamas operating in the Gaza City office building that hosted media outlets hit by an airstrike over the weekend.
“Shortly after the strike we did request additional details regarding the justification for it,” Blinken said, adding he “will leave it to others to characterize if any information has been shared and our assessment of that information.”
By Jacqueline Alemany Jacqueline Alemany is the author of Power Up, an early morning newsletter featuring news critical to the nation’s many power centers, including the White House, Capitol Hill, government agencies, the Pentagon and more. She joined The Washington Post in 2018 after six years at CBS News. By Karoun Demirjian Karoun Demirjian is a national security reporter covering Capitol Hill, where she focuses on defense, foreign affairs, intelligence and policy matters concerning the Justice Department. She was previously a correspondent based in The Post's bureau in Moscow. By John Hudson John Hudson is a national security reporter at The Washington Post covering the State Department and diplomacy. He has reported from a mix of countries including Ukraine, Pakistan, Malaysia, China, and Georgia.
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Post by lagatta on May 18, 2021 14:13:44 GMT
Bernie Sanders doesn't seem obsessed with the Shoah connection to refugees emigrating to Israel; afer all they also went to many other places in Europe, the Americas and many other places. Bernie and his brother Larry were children of Polish Jews (ground zero for the Nazi genocide) and Larry said that all the rest of the extended family had been killed.
A surprising number of refugees (many held in DP camps) actually settled in Germany.
The last thing memories of Nazi rule should inspire is more military agression and ethnic discrimination.
I know (younger) progressive Israelis who have moved here - not that we are perfect either, but they couldn't stand Israeli society. And one a few years older who stays there to fight the good fight for equality and against militarism and all brands of religious bigotry. He is discouraged though.
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Post by tod2 on May 18, 2021 14:23:51 GMT
This is how I found out about Israel:
My very first ever overseas trip was to Israel in 1980. And, only because the travel agent pointed out that we had a free third destination included in our trip to Europe. So, here I am- a travel virgin I suppose, going to be exposed to the most unusual country. I knew nothing of the war. All I wanted to see were the religious sights, the other interesting places like Masada were a bonus in my education of Israel. I found some buildings in disrepair because there was no money to fix them because of the war. I learnt that all army personnel had free transport on the local buses. I learned one could leave your backpack outside the big mosque (Dome of the Rock?) and no-one would touch it. I found out children are rounded up for the night and transported to underground safe shelters on the kibbutz we stayed on. They had been shelled at 3am that morning. We stayed at The Dan in Tel Aviv which was delightful - even had a man in swim trunks at the swimming pool with his briefcase handcuffed to his wrist. The King David in Jerusalem was too stuffy and the diningroom staff were very rude. I discovered that my baby son was not permitted to drink his milk at the restaurant we went to on the Sea of Galilee because we were eating fish ( that no mix dairy with meat thing). But apart from the unusual strange sights for a first trip for me, I loved Israel. I saw all the tourist places and am glad I can look at my clock made from a old olive tree and think of our lovely time there. Would I want to go back? I did at one time but I think it's a case of 'Been there, done that, got the T-Shirt".
Sorry I can't comment on the bad situation in Israel except to say - A dog does not give up his bone easily.
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Post by kerouac2 on May 18, 2021 14:48:33 GMT
Tod, I think that back when you were there, most of the Israelis were not yet petrified into their current strange attitudes, although I do find your anecdote about your son not being allowed to drink milk in the restaurant absolutely ridiculous. After all, you were not feeding him fish at the same time, were you?
Meanwhile, the massive influx of Russian Jews to Israel when the Soviet Union collapsed (about 900,000 of them in all over the years) did create a huge imbalance in the country. For one thing, many of them love to eat pork and refuse to give it up. So now there are dozens of pork farms in Israel concerning which the authorities created the outlandish rule that the pigs must be raised on concrete so that their awful sinful feet never touch Israeli soil. I kind of wish there were more of them because they have moved Israeli politics just a bit to the left with more secular ideas (after all of that godless communism).
I know that almost 50% of French Jews who have performed their alyah (about 200,000) end up returning to France because they are absolutely not satisfied with life in Israel. But there is a major difference between the ethnic French Jews (Ashkenazi) who can't adapt and the North African French Jews (Sephardi) from the Maghreb who fit in more comfortably with the customs and cuisine. But even so, if they have spent most or all of their lives in France, they often prefer life in France.
Israel refuses to publish any statistics about emigration from Israel but only the incoming immigration statistics that suit them. In any case, they would have great difficulty doing so, because most of the people leaving the country do so without warning because they would theoretically be liable to repay the financial settlement assistance that they were given upon arrival.
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