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Post by kerouac2 on Oct 5, 2022 11:37:02 GMT
I'm sure I'm not the only person who has been following this situation on the various media.
I don't really have my hopes up, but it would be nice if women were able to come out on top for once in a new revolution. Even though the women are being supported by some Iranian men, we are not really hearing many of them speak out about the situation. Then again, it shouldn't really be their role to do so (except in the category "the end justifies the means" -- if that's what it takes to get freedom, they might prefer to take what they can get.
Meanwhile, a number of French female celebrities have cut their hair in a video to support the Iranian movement. Juliette Binoche, Isabelle Adjani, Isabelle Huppert, Marion Cotillard, Jane Birkin, Charlotte Rampling, etc. Will this help?
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Post by bjd on Oct 5, 2022 14:35:14 GMT
I'm sure the mullahs and Revolutionary Guards are really affected by videos of famous French women cutting their hair. They will immediately stop the riot police beating and arresting protesters.
I have been following this news story but am not hopeful. It's far from the first time there have been demonstrations for various reasons and each time the government has cracked down hard.
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Post by kerouac2 on Oct 5, 2022 16:10:06 GMT
Actually, Iran has buckled under international opinion plenty of times already, notably in the case of releasing prisoners (particularly the foreign ones, it must be admitted).
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Post by lugg on Oct 5, 2022 20:39:48 GMT
Seeing my DIL tomorrow and I guess the conversations about this will be interesting.
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Post by questa on Oct 6, 2022 22:45:40 GMT
I was in Iran a few years ago and had the luck to share a picnic with some students...young women. They don't want to give up the veil as they said that in class and practice the teachers and male students took them more seriously and treated them as equals, whereas by slipping it back over the crown of the head (risky in public) that showed they were immature and flighty.
I wonder what they think now?
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Post by bjd on Oct 7, 2022 6:15:04 GMT
Last night I watched a debate about Iran's current situation and the young women and high school girls who keep demonstrating despite police repression. That the high school students are ripping off their veils and burning them hardly agrees with what they told Questa a few years ago. I think it also doesn't say much for the mullahs and Iranian men in charge if they can only take women seriously if their hair and bodies are covered.
Both the Iranian women who participated live in France and both said the French celebrities cutting their hair in support of Iranian women were of no interest and no help. One of them said that she had been active in Iranian resistance for years and none of these French women had been willing to even sign a petition in the past.
None of the participants were optimistic about how things would evolve. Those in government want to hold onto power and have the guns. They said that the only thing that seems to have changed compared to previous revolts is that the young women appear to have stopped being afraid, which is dangerous for a system based on repression of dissent. But they also said that Iran is not a monolithic totalitarian state and that there was some dissent over government policy among the clergy. They also said that unrest among minorities along the borders caused the government more worry than the women's demonstrations.
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Post by kerouac2 on Oct 8, 2022 12:36:44 GMT
Both the Iranian women who participated live in France and both said the French celebrities cutting their hair in support of Iranian women were of no interest and no help. This action was in the direction of international public opinion and not Iranian public opinion. And it has been reported around the world, so it reached its goal. "Red carpet" fans may have finally seen that some of their favourite people were not only interested in clothes.
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Post by kerouac2 on Oct 8, 2022 19:58:32 GMT
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Post by mickthecactus on Oct 8, 2022 20:46:26 GMT
Yes I like Aljazeera. And I like CNN. Is that wrong?
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Post by kerouac2 on Oct 13, 2022 16:10:01 GMT
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Post by mickthecactus on Oct 13, 2022 16:19:58 GMT
I’d like to think they’ll succeed but.....
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Post by kerouac2 on Oct 13, 2022 17:12:00 GMT
Other sectors of the economy have been supporting them, for example the bazaar of Tehran which closed in support and certain industries.
As usual, though, it is the urban areas that tend to support the movement (and where the police have been the most lenient) and the rural areas that have the most retrograde ideas. But since Tehran leads the nation, if they can succeed there, the rest of the country will follow (or at least not oppose).
That's how revolutions work.
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Post by kerouac2 on Oct 13, 2022 18:01:18 GMT
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Post by questa on Oct 14, 2022 0:11:25 GMT
students...young women. They don't want to give up the veil as they said that in class and practice the teachers and male students took them more seriously and treated them as equals, whereas by slipping it back over the crown of the head (risky in public) that showed they were immature and flighty. I wonder what they think now? Both the Iranian women who participated live in France and both said the French celebrities cutting their hair in support of Iranian women were of no interest and no help. One of them said that she had been active in Iranian resistance for years and none of these French women had been willing to even sign a petition in the past. I’d like to think they’ll succeed but..... Timing. Sisters, that is what you have to get right.
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Post by kerouac2 on Oct 27, 2022 4:13:13 GMT
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Post by bjd on Oct 28, 2022 10:59:19 GMT
I saw there are videos circulating online of (young) people knocking mullahs' turbans off their heads as they walk along the street.
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Post by bixaorellana on Oct 28, 2022 21:48:44 GMT
I’d like to think they’ll succeed but..... Exactly. You have to wonder what are the chances in a popular revolt such as this, since the protestors have no army behind them. This commentary is interesting in how Vick points out more than once that the protests are popping up all over, not just in large urban areas. This has been pointed out before, as in the article in #12 above, but coupled with his speculation about the security forces, it does give a spark of hope that this revolt might keep gaining momentum. time.com/6221411/iran-protests-security-forces-images/
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Post by bjd on Oct 29, 2022 6:11:20 GMT
Interesting video. The only chance this kind of popular revolt has of success is if the security forces turn against the government. In the case of Iran, the theocracy has given the various security forces a lot of perks and power so they are probably not ready to support the protestor But, if the way Vick reads what is happening is accurate, perhaps there is some hope.
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Post by kerouac2 on Oct 29, 2022 6:35:57 GMT
One thing that should be remembered is that all of the government forces, police and army have plenty of women in their families.
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Post by mickthecactus on Nov 10, 2022 16:21:53 GMT
Is it still going? Seems to have dropped out of the news.
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Post by bjd on Nov 10, 2022 17:32:12 GMT
I just saw a item about it on France24. Photos of famous Iranian actresses without headscarves on social media. Demonstrations are still going on every day and Khameini still blaming foreigners for the unrest.
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Post by kerouac2 on Nov 10, 2022 17:42:16 GMT
Besides the official demonstrations, Iranian teenagers have a new game -- filming themselves knocking turbans off the heads of mullahs.
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Post by kerouac2 on Dec 4, 2022 8:43:02 GMT
It appears that the Iranian morality police are going to be defanged in the next two weeks in response to the revolt. Naturally, the legislature has to go through a major political battle between the liberals and the ultraconservatives.
The Guardian reports:
In the newspaper I read yesterday, it was said that 80% of the women in Tehran are now going out without headscarves, and that all attempts at enforcement of the law have been abandoned in the city.
Good news at last?
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Post by bjd on Dec 4, 2022 12:11:14 GMT
The morality police have been disbanded as of today.
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Post by mickthecactus on Dec 4, 2022 13:35:45 GMT
Excellent news. Perhaps the Taliban might take the hint...
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Post by bjd on Dec 4, 2022 18:47:50 GMT
Actually, I later learned that the morality police have been disbanded but the hijab requirement law remains on the books. It will just be enforced by different police.
As for the Taliban, I wouldn't get my hopes up given that women have been forbidden from going to public parks.
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Post by kerouac2 on Dec 4, 2022 19:03:33 GMT
Nevertheless, Iranian women are much more evolved (?) than Afghan women.
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Post by onlyMark on Dec 4, 2022 21:14:32 GMT
Off the top of my head I think they are two different Islamic sects anyway.
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Post by patricklondon on Dec 4, 2022 21:21:05 GMT
Actually, I later learned that the morality police have been disbanded but the hijab requirement law remains on the books. It will just be enforced by different police.. Aha. I did wonder if the original story was a case of Reculer pour mieux sauter - give way on the protests' immediate targets and keep the really tough guys in reserve in case this develops into a serious threat to the real centres of power.
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Post by kerouac2 on Dec 4, 2022 22:12:08 GMT
I think that the protests have every reason to continue, but it still seems quite obvious that this is a major victory. Any group that calls itself the "morality police" obviously attracts a special kind of pervert. If just the "normal" police are now supposed to uphold the ridiculous law, clearly they will not do so with the same enthusiasm.
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