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Post by onlyMark on Mar 9, 2023 7:18:43 GMT
This is the Danza de los Voladores ("Dance of the Flyers") and is an ancient Mesoamerican ceremony/ritual. There are various reasons for the dance, ranging from religion to fertility. It all seems to depend on where you do it. Mostly it is a male thing and women are prohibited - “.....the belief that women are “bad entities, who bring bad luck” and their inclusion would be a sin and/or anger the gods.” There are certain States or areas that do allow women but - “The women must also be virgins without a boyfriend if unmarried or abstain from sexual relations before the ritual if married. If a female volador is found to have broken the rules of sexual abstention, she is taken to an altar which is surrounded by incense burners and candles. An image of the Archangel Michael or Saint James bears witness to the punishment, which involves a number of slaps to the face (bofetadas), with the quantity depending on the transgression and the decision of those in charge. It is claimed that the ritual cures “the fever” of the woman. It is believed that women who do not obey these rules will bring calamity to the ritual. Maybe a snack on the way out - Nice and empty when I go there. Actually several hours later it was still virtually empty -
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Post by onlyMark on Mar 9, 2023 12:37:24 GMT
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Post by onlyMark on Mar 9, 2023 12:38:23 GMT
Ahh, found some other people - I’m aiming for the building far right tucked away behind the other one - This one. The Temple of the Niches - of which there are 365, one for each day of the year. There is conjecture as to the purpose of the niches but some believe they are representing passages to the underworld where the gods reside. This is quite unique amongst ruins of that era - Moving further -
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Post by onlyMark on Mar 9, 2023 12:39:46 GMT
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Post by onlyMark on Mar 9, 2023 13:09:54 GMT
I've realised I didn't put up a route map for where I went. I'll remedy that now and leave you all for a few days in which I'll pop back but no more on the report for now.
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 9, 2023 14:02:11 GMT
You definitely covered a huge amount of territory. I'm certainly impressed. (Actually I drove about 4000 km myself in South Africa, but that was 25 years ago when I was in the cusp of manhood.)
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Post by onlyMark on Mar 9, 2023 15:11:30 GMT
This was about 4900km but now I'll say nearly 5000 and in a year it'll be 6000. I'll add on a thousand or so every year if it comes up. The most I've ever done on one of these trips (other than professionally) was not so long ago, in 2019 when I slipped around the south of Africa when I was in Lusaka. Mrs M joined me for some but the majority was by myself. That was a touch over 11,000km. I don't think I'd be doing that again.
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Post by bixaorellana on Mar 9, 2023 15:25:17 GMT
Mark, this is simply the best travelogue of Mexico I've ever seen, my lack of comments so far not withstanding. I'm without wifi for the moment, so only able to enjoy the report for a few data-draining minutes while tethered to my phone. Once I get wifi I'll be able to peruse it from the beginning & then will probably bore you with burbling. At any rate, more than well done -- monumental!
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Post by htmb on Mar 9, 2023 17:08:27 GMT
It’s quite impressive to see how many miles you drove and the terrain covered. There’s a lot of detail to absorb and super photos. Great information for anyone interested in this region of Mexico.
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Post by onlyMark on Mar 9, 2023 17:11:46 GMT
Take your time Bixa, it's going nowhere.
htmb, muchas gracias.
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Post by nycgirl on Mar 14, 2023 19:28:08 GMT
Carmen looks like a nice place to wander around. The buildings are so vibrant and photogenic. I also saw a performance of the Danza de los Voladores. So impressive that they're able to perform without getting ill. I'm going to try to post them soon; unfortunately, I am unlike you and it takes me a loooooong time to do anything. You covered quite a lot of ground. I hope one day I can return to Mexico and see even half of what you did. I especially want to see Oaxaca, of course.
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Post by onlyMark on Mar 15, 2023 6:43:22 GMT
I'm sure I'd black out if I had to do that dance thing. I do have something to post but as with you, I'm trying to get around to it.
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Post by lugg on Mar 15, 2023 19:21:46 GMT
What an epic journey - enjoying all the additional details mark
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Post by onlyMark on Mar 15, 2023 21:51:02 GMT
I've still got a post or two left. I hope soon.
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Post by onlyMark on Mar 18, 2023 10:35:45 GMT
I’ve got a few things left to post, none are particularly long but are worth in their own right a mention. I am aware there is comprehensive coverage of Oaxaca and Puebla done in the past so I’ll make a reference to them in a handful of photos and leave it at that for those. Later I’ll cover a few other places. Oaxaca. Very pleasant place, always seems to be something happening and full of interesting nooks and crannies. Even though the buildings stay the same, the faces and people change. It is easy to see why there are flocks of tourists there.
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Post by onlyMark on Mar 18, 2023 10:37:04 GMT
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Post by onlyMark on Mar 18, 2023 10:38:32 GMT
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 18, 2023 11:50:19 GMT
One of the real pleasures of all of these reports is seeing how pedestrians are winning the battle with cars more and more. I remember 30 or 40 years ago when cars still ruled everywhere except for maybe one pedestrian shopping street in the bigger cities, usually won after a huge battle with all of the people who said that banning cars would absolutely kill all of the businesses along the street.
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Post by onlyMark on Mar 18, 2023 12:19:42 GMT
As much as I use cars for transport and pleasure it's always enjoyable to be walking around without seeing them. I think all towns ought to have a solely pedestrian area - and that includes banning the riding of bikes, electric scooters or anything with wheels unless it is used for disability transport.
I have a Citroen Berlingo. I've owned more than one over time. It is an amazing car for family transport and loading with stuff. Lots of space and roomy. Mrs M and I were a little sad that Citroen, a couple of years ago, decided the only one they would offer from then on would be an electric version. Means we would have to find another car make/model because there is no way we could manage our journeys purely with an electric car. Blow me down but Citroen have now said due to "customer demand" they'll be making the petrol/diesel versions again.
I think the honeymoon period for electric vehicles is nearly over. People are beginning to have their eyes opened regarding the costs associated, both environmental and monetary, to owning them - plus the impracticability for certain types of travel and the difficulties over time taken and facilities available for recharging if not done at home - never mind trying to run a cable across the pavement to your car from your house because you are one of the thousands and thousands who live in an apartment or a house without a driveway.
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Post by onlyMark on Mar 18, 2023 12:22:27 GMT
One thing I couldn’t get used to, and it’s the same in Spain, is not only how loud the musicians are, but deliberately screeching some notes that hurt the ears (or mine anyway) and sound at the very edge of being in tune (to my ears as well) - A random photo from inside one of the churches - There was a nice calm artists area - Like an indoor food court. I didn’t eat there but some of the food I saw served looked good. Looked mind you, no idea how it tasted. At one time walking down a side street there was a late middle aged couple, obviously tourists, and the woman was being sick into the gutter. The husband holding a bottle of water and tissues. As she stood back up a local man was just passing and in good English said to her not to worry about doing it, the locals get the same thing from time to time as well - One of the less ornate buildings - To end for here, I was treated to a very tasty lunch whilst in the city. We finished off with a very good dessert. So good Steven jumped on the table and grabbed some off my plate -
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Post by casimira on Mar 18, 2023 13:07:48 GMT
I love the Temple of the Niches! Very Cool!!
So much ground covered indeed. My head would be spinning at the thought.
As for driving in certain places, I was astounded and petrified at how the drivers in Oaxaca seemed to have absolutely no regard for pedestrians and no speed limit signs in sight with the vast majority of traffic lights not functioning if you could even locate them.
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Post by onlyMark on Mar 18, 2023 14:40:31 GMT
Quite unique is that Temple I seem to remember reading. I do admit that I have images in my mind and need to look at some photos to realise for sure where that was.
Yes, walking around could be problematic, in fact anywhere that I went was the same, so I expect it is standard for the country. It's quite a change from here where I am at the moment in Germany where pedestrians take precedence. It may be down to experience but I had no problem driving there. Not even a close call. I could see the potential for collisions etc but as long as every driver is "on the same page" then that's fine. The problem comes about when those not used to it drive and have different expectations as to who has right of way and so on. I also like the rule breaking attitude, especially regarding speed limits, because having driven in countries where the opposite is true, I am constantly on my guard against going above the limit and either being stopped or caught by a camera. The more lackadaisical attitude far better suits me.
I asked a taxi driver about traffic lights and being "optional" if you stopped or not. He said his brothers always just plough through regardless on red. He stopped then at a green light and I asked him why. He said it could be one of his brothers is coming through the other way on red.
What made me cheer at times were the Americans either in their own cars or in an obvious rental car who, on a dual carriageway, or one with more lanes, just blocked off the 'fast' lane because in the States you can 'undertake' and use whatever lane is free. Not so in Mexico and most countries where once you do overtake as normal you move back into the slower lane. I'm sure you can picture it. Countless times I'd see a Mexican driver wanting to go past traffic, come up behind them, honk and flash at them several times to get them to clear out of the way whilst they wondered why he doesn't go past me in he clear lane to the right.
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Post by onlyMark on Mar 19, 2023 12:28:17 GMT
At the end of 2016 an extremely comprehensive, colourful and informative report was done by long term members of the forum and after once again going through it I realise I couldn’t do justice to the city of Puebla without referring to that report. Pointed out earlier by Fumo - anyportinastorm.proboards.com/thread/7916/amazing-pueblaI will touch upon my view of the city but there is no way my photos of the markets and inside of churches would reach the same standard or detail. Hence all I can post is a generalisation of what I saw. With maybe a few extra details. To remind you then, a brief history from the previous thread I have so lazily copied and pasted. Nevertheless it is worth repeating - “The Spaniards laid out central Puebla as a rectangular grid in 1531, and the streets are still mostly numbered, which makes it easier not to get lost. For example, our hotel was near the intersection of Calle 2 Norte and Avenida 4 Oriente (street sign shown in 2nd photo of reply #1). Many of the current buildings date from the mid 19th century and were built by the Spanish... and the French. Most of us are somewhat hazy on Mexican history, so it is interesting to note that Puebla was under French rule for part of the 1860's and that the holiday of Cinco de Mayo commemorates the defeat of the French army in Puebla by General Zaragoza on 5 May 1862. The French took the city again but finally left in 1866, not before leaving behind quite a few architectural influences and things like music kiosks in the parks. In any case, Puebla was always a major trading hub -- located midway between the coastal port on the Gulf of Mexico and Mexico City. Many people from Spain, Italy, Lebanon, Germany and France settled there and the influences of all of these cultures remain quite evident.” My hotel was just at the bottom of the city very near to this nice bridge. A factor in choosing hotels is the disadvantage of needing a car parking space or at least street parking I can use. Not much of that easily available smack in the middle. Never mind though, it usually gives me an excuse to walk a bit further -
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Post by onlyMark on Mar 19, 2023 12:29:31 GMT
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Post by onlyMark on Mar 19, 2023 12:30:48 GMT
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Post by onlyMark on Mar 19, 2023 19:39:44 GMT
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Post by onlyMark on Mar 19, 2023 19:41:05 GMT
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Post by onlyMark on Mar 19, 2023 19:42:18 GMT
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Post by nycgirl on Mar 19, 2023 21:23:06 GMT
Nice to see some updates. I love the pictures of the parades in Oaxaca, both the huge sculptures and the close-up portraits. I've said this before, but I think Oaxacan women and their dress, makeup, and hairstyling are so beautiful.
I'm with Kerouac, I love to see victories for pedestrianized streets. However, I'm gonna have to disagree with Mark and say there should be more bike lanes, too (but not necessarily together with the pedestrian streets). When I was in Mexico City, I was very impressed to see that a major thoroughfare is closed cars for 6 hours every Sunday, with separate lanes for pedestrians and bicyclists. NYC does not do anything remotely similar, alas.
Puebla looks lovely, I really wanted to visit but didn't have time. Hopefully next time.
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Post by nycgirl on Mar 19, 2023 21:31:12 GMT
Oh, I forgot to mention, I agree with you that some of the "music" is so painful to the ears. Well, sometimes it's good, but sometimes it's the most excruciating racket. The organ grinder quickly became my least favorite instrument.
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