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Post by imec on Oct 8, 2009 13:47:19 GMT
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Post by lagatta on Oct 8, 2009 14:49:49 GMT
Very touching little chapel - how do they protect it from the elements in the winter season?
Perhaps Mary had to be restored. There is an exact copy of Notre-Dame-de-la-Garde in Marseille atop a former convent here that is now the setting of Dawson College; she "descended" to the ground recently as she had to be taken down for restoration work. Our climate is rougher on statuary than Marseille's is.
Notre-Dame-de-Bon-Secours is also the name of the famous "Sailors' Church" in Montréal harbour; it is mentioned in Leonard Cohen's famous song "Suzanne".
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Post by bixaorellana on Oct 8, 2009 15:20:53 GMT
It is precious!
I have many questions ~~
Is the chapel older than the church?
Was it built because the Metis were segregated from the rest of the congregation?
Are open-air chapels built that way in order to accommodate many more people, should they show up?
Is Mass still held there on occasion?
Lots of history implicit in that one little chapel!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2009 17:12:18 GMT
What a strange idea. Couldn't they afford the fourth wall?
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Post by imec on Oct 8, 2009 17:41:52 GMT
The chapel was built in 1875, the current church in 1937 (the first church was built of logs in 1857).
The Metis (who emerged from relations between European men and Aboriginal women) were a marginalized people who fought the colonists to maintain their way of life as well as land ownership and language rights. Father Noel Ritchot, leader of the St. Norbert Parish (largely Metis people) was instrumental in the negotiation with Canada of the Manitoba Act of 1870 - which achieved the goals of the Metis of the Red River Valley and established the Province of Manitoba. Louis Riel, the political leader of the metis who led the struggle for a negotiated entry into confederation as a province rather than a territory was exiled to the United States for his role in leading the resistance and was later hanged for treason by the Canadian Government after he returned to lead a similar rebellion - the Northwest Rebellion - in Saskatchewn. The chapel was built by Ritchot and his Metis parishioners as a gesture of thanks to the virgin Mary whom they believed aided them in their struggle.
Louis Riel is today recognized as the Father of Manitoba and his life and accomplishments are commemorated by a provincial holiday in February. Despite several attempts at legislation, his conviction has still not been revoked by the Government of Canada.
I don't really know the purpose of open air chapels (perhaps someone who practices Catholicism can shed some light on this). I've not seen mass being held there but I do occasionally see folks praying in the chapel.
St. Norbert was also the site of a convent built for the Grey Nuns in 1858 (now demolished), a Trappist Monastery in 1892 (now an arts and cultural centre) and a home for the Oblate Fathers (now a conference and educational centre).
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Post by bixaorellana on Oct 8, 2009 17:53:27 GMT
The chapel is set up for saying Mass, with an altar and a tabernacle. That doesn't mean it's still used, though. The only place I've ever seen a three-walled chapel like that is in the state of Chiapas, Mexico. They occur in other states, too. I didn't get too many details, but was told the chapel was "for the Indians". Anyway, I looked it up, and this corroborates some of my conjecture above. It's about Mexico, but certainly could apply to Canada as well: www.jstor.org/pss/164895Fascinating history, Imec -- thank you. I'm presently reading a novel freighted with pre-Revolutionary War US history and am realizing that I know nothing. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2009 18:03:37 GMT
The only reason I can think of for such things is to attract tribal people who refuse (or are afraid) to enter an enclosed structure, which they might see as a trap.
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Post by imec on Oct 8, 2009 18:21:21 GMT
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Post by bixaorellana on Oct 8, 2009 18:24:10 GMT
Has anyone ever told you you have an exceptionally baroque mind?
If you read what Imec wrote above, it's obvious that Ritchot's parishioners were already Catholics, in fact, were probably born into the religion. If you read the link I posted, you'll see there was a practical reason for leaving the chapel open. My guess would be that open chapels probably also mimicked structures with which native peoples were familiar.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2009 18:53:10 GMT
That second one looks like an attempt to copy the grotto of Lourdes.  |
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Post by bixaorellana on Oct 8, 2009 19:20:23 GMT
Sorry, Imec -- I didn't realize I was posting at the same time as you put up the new pictures.
Those are interesting, but definitely a grotto/shrine thing rather than a chapel.
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Post by imec on Oct 8, 2009 19:21:34 GMT
The adjacent church is a bit on the odd side as well...  |
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Post by lagatta on Oct 8, 2009 23:37:48 GMT
Nothing odd about that yellow church - it is just testimony to the strong North Eastern European presence on the Canadian prairies as opposed to the earlier Indigenous, French and Métis legacy. Not at all odd to think to bring over northern Slavs such as Ukranians, Russians and Poles to a vast territory of steppes with rugged winters (and a good climate for winter wheat).
Not far from here there are two Ukranian churches, much smaller but of similar architecture. One is Orthodox, the other Catholic. (There is not nearly the Ukranian presence here found on the Prairies).
imec, the grotto with a big lawn is odd, but it looks like it was designed for large open-air gatherings. In that sense it echoes the sweet little chapel. Gawd the concrete stucco fake stones are ugly though.
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Post by hwinpp on Oct 13, 2009 6:07:24 GMT
The adjacent church is a bit on the odd side as well... ... It looks Byzantine... or orthodoxish. |
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Post by bixaorellana on Oct 13, 2009 6:40:38 GMT
That is an example of Romanesque architecture.
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Post by hwinpp on Oct 14, 2009 9:58:39 GMT
Hmmm, Bixa, I do think you're slightly off the track. Romanesque was the fore runner of Gothic architecture, the lines were straight and clear, very bare, one could nearly say 'protestant' except they were still far away. Here's why I thought they looked Byzantine  Think away the minarets, the Hagia Sophia was built as a Christian church. Another one  |
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Post by imec on Oct 14, 2009 12:30:03 GMT
Check out this link for further information. "There are nine round domes, said to represent the nine ranks of angels. There is a large central dome which rises to 114 feet above the ground, one on each arm, and one at each corner of the central crossing. The building includes transepts, chapels and an apse and these are expressed externally. The massing of this forms is inspired by the Byzantine Ukranian tradition in architecture" |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2009 13:24:19 GMT
That is an example of Romanesque architecture. I think Bixa was just referring to the rounded arches on the windows instead of pointed gothic arches. At least I hope so. |
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Post by bixaorellana on Oct 14, 2009 14:39:38 GMT
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Post by hwinpp on Oct 17, 2009 5:42:47 GMT
Hmmm, I see it's not as clear cut as thought  |
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