|
Post by Kimby on Dec 31, 2016 18:45:54 GMT
Mr. Kimby is spending many hours on the phone (mostly on hold) and filling out forms, copying, and mailing huge sheafs of documents, trying to wrap up his father's affairs for his mother who is too confused to be much help. We are 3000 miles away from her and her lawyer ($450/hour) and accountant (a good guy who iis the person who tipped us off to the senior Kimby's declining abilities several years ago). I am amazed at the patience Mr. Kimby shows his mother, who has trouble with the simplest tasks she used to do with ease, and with the officious twits who flex their power making all transactions as difficult as possible. It seems the smaller an account or insurance policy, the more hoops they make you jump through to cash it in. Fortunately, Mr. Kimby was designated as their power of attorney before his folks began slipping, and he has the right to do all this for them. However the POA document is 20+ pages long, and even though the lawyer sent us a PDF copy that could be sent attached to email, each bank, mutual fund and insurer seems to want their own mailed hard copy. Mr. K is nearing his wit's end.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2016 21:59:37 GMT
I was extremely lucky because even though I never requested official power of attorney for my mother (complicated bureaucracy), I was automatically designated "person of authority" in France for just about everything. She was still sufficiently lucid upon arriving in France to sign over the sale of the house and all of the bank accounts to me, so there was no conflict about that. We did have to return to the American Embassy a second time after she failed her first test in front of the notary. "Why are you selling this house?" "I don't know." I drilled her non stop and we returned the following day to try again. "Why are you selling this house?" "My husband died and I don't want to live there anymore."
I just hope that parents of the future will understand that they are likely to live too long to remain lucid and should sign certain papers before the time comes. Unfortunately, most of us know how stubborn our parents can be.
|
|
|
Post by Kimby on Dec 31, 2016 23:04:34 GMT
I'm wondering what those of us who DON'T have kids are supposed to do? Who do we sign OUR affairs over to? Who can we trust to look out for our interests, both financially as well as medically? And who will love us like we've loved our parents to the bitter end?
Seems like there's going to be a big need for some structure to take up the slack, with so many boomers aging and many of them without kids. Or with kids they are estranged from, but who might turn up to defraud their elders as they weaken and slip into obscurity...
I'm feeling SO optimistic lately....
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2017 0:47:56 GMT
I absolutely understand that feeling, Kimby, and I keep wondering what to do if some day I feel that I am in the final decline. And I am just hoping that I understand that it is the final decline fast enough.
|
|
|
Post by mich64 on Jan 1, 2017 3:50:16 GMT
We face the same situation Kimby and Keuroac. We have had a few discussions regarding this. We are fortunate to have nieces, nephews and godchildren and we have had this conversation with a few of them. We will have something prepared formally but should probably put more effort into actually getting that done.
I do admit that I have become quite anxious thinking about possible outcomes since my brain injury. My husband currently is designated to speak on my behalf.
|
|
|
Post by mossie on Jan 1, 2017 9:23:08 GMT
How morbid it is easy to become. I made a will years ago which hands everything equally to my two sons, when I raked it out recently I added a bit to the effect that at my cremation I want to hear Gracie Fields singing the old WW1 song, "Wish me luck as you wave me goodbye". The will importantly says that I do NOT want to be resuscitated. While I am not keen on dying just yet I do not want to drag on and be a burden to others. I also feel a bit helpless in that I cannot now do a lot of things I would like to do, luckily I have done most of the things that attracted me, whether for good or bad.
So, in the words of an old song which haunts me, "Roll on death, and let's have a crack at the angels". Whatever, do not take life too seriously, it doesn't give a damn about you.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2017 18:38:13 GMT
Your uncle sounds like a great guy. Thank you, whatagain. And everyone who responded. I feel I'm just coming out of a three-week fog and I'm able to take notice of the world again.
For me, I'm having trouble watching old men alone in the street or in the shops. I just feel such sympathy that I want to run up and hug them.
My Dad had a standing DNR for many years that was enacted before I even got to the hospital. Not only no resuscitation, but no intubation, tube feeding, drugs to ease pain only. They had a copy of it at the hospital, so I had next to no decisions to make. When "the talk" finally happened with the doctor, we were in complete agreement, and the only intervention was to take off the oxygen mask and administer the final shot of morphine. It was such a relief.
Perhaps I'll get my final instructions tattoed somewhere so they're with me always.
|
|
|
Post by rikita on Jan 1, 2017 23:45:49 GMT
actually, my sis-in-law told me today that either she or her sister (they are both nurses, i don't remember for sure now which one) saw a patient once who had tattoed on his chest "do not resuscitate" ... i suppose they also had a more official paper saying so, somewhere ...
|
|
|
Post by Kimby on Jan 2, 2017 3:47:46 GMT
When "the talk" finally happened with the doctor, we were in complete agreement, and the only intervention was to take off the oxygen mask and administer the final shot of morphine. It was such a relief. Lizzy, was the morphine to lessen pain, or was it a physician-assisted-suicide dose? In our case, in Wisconsin, the morphine was used for pain only. But we were told that once hospice starts the morphine, the patient doesn't linger for long.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2017 4:00:15 GMT
It was to make him comfortable, comfortable enough to let go. It certainly wasn't an overdose, the doctor wouldn't have made that mistake. But my father's breathing was severely compromised and morphine is a notorious respiratory depressant. Happens more than people know. He just wasn't coming back from that heart attack.
|
|
|
Post by Kimby on Jan 2, 2017 4:22:17 GMT
Yes, Mr. Kimby's Dad went fairly quickly after hospice started administering morphine. I wondered if they were intentionally helping him along, since we had arrived to take care of details and would be with his Mom for a week. Timing was too perfect. I'm grateful that they eased his passage. He was so ready.
|
|
|
Post by tod2 on Jan 3, 2017 14:08:30 GMT
At the start of this New Year it is good that our thoughts turn to the subject of illness, Wills and burials. It is up to us whilst still able to tap away happily on our computers, to do something about our end. Kimby poses the questions many of us have and at the moment see no answer. We of the older generation have looked after our parents and other relatives with great care but see in this fast moving world our children do not seem to be of the same intention or if they are we are afraid when the time comes they will be too busy with their own lives....and we wouldn't want them to neglect their families to take care of old farts like us!
What to do, what to do we ask? Well, we have gone as far as it's possible. Our properties are all in a family trust. Many investments likewise. Our son has already inherited a house and business so that we are here to guide and advise instead of him being thrown in at the deep end when we can no longer carry on. We have medical insurance which hopefully will meet all problems and unless we have to suddenly be evacuated to another country because of war, we should be OK.
It is very hard to put all your eggs in one basket and trust either a family friend, a relative or a bunch of lawyers or accountants to "see to things" when we die. Most will do a good job but you don't want to make things difficult for those left behind. When my mother passed on we decided the fee for winding up her estate was worth every penny to have it done by a firm of accountants. It took a whole year.
|
|
|
Post by Kimby on Jan 3, 2017 14:41:48 GMT
It was to make him comfortable, comfortable enough to let go. It certainly wasn't an overdose, the doctor wouldn't have made that mistake. But my father's breathing was severely compromised and morphine is a notorious respiratory depressant. Happens more than people know. He just wasn't coming back from that heart attack. I was thinking your father died in Washington state, Lizzy. Isn't that a doctor-assisted suicide state?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2017 16:01:06 GMT
No, I'm Canadian as is everyone in my family except my husband. My father died on Vancouver Island in BC.
All of Canada has a physician-assisted death policy that has passed the Supreme Court.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2017 3:10:27 GMT
Today I started to clean out my father's office in earnest, which is physically uncomfortable because of the thick tar of nicotine that covers every item and suface. I'm carrying buckets of blackened soapy water back and forth to the laundry room all day. I keep my mind occupied by playing documentaries and English TV panel shows on my laptop. I emptied the picture frames of photos no one wants and cleaned them with glass cleaner. I filled a bin with old papers (certificates, ancient taxes, letters). Then I came across a sort-of suicide note my dad had written, saying that he was just tired and didn't want to go on anymore and was hoping he wasn't leaving too much of a mess for anyone to clean up. Then I found the tiny practice nooses on a length of silk rope. Pretty shocking and upsetting. I had to put it all aside; I'm going to take myself out for a beer and a burger, I think.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2017 5:49:26 GMT
That's pretty creepy. I hope you had more than one beer.
I had a call from a former Bangladeshi colleague for the first time in a year. Frustrated with the French job market, he had tried his luck in England and has now returned after deciding that it was not for him. Anyway, he asked about my mother, so I told him, and he said "my mother died when I was 9 months old."
|
|
|
Post by bjd on Feb 1, 2017 6:22:41 GMT
Good luck with all that, Lizzy.
I can understand your attitude about the nicotine. The house at the coast we bought last year had belonged to an old man who smoked cigars. He was also blind and 92. The person who "cleaned" for him obviously figured he couldn't see anyway so didn't bother doing more than the basics. When we started renovating, the coating of yellow on everything was disgusting. I had to wash the doors repeatedly until they were white again before I could repaint.
|
|
|
Post by mossie on Feb 1, 2017 10:12:23 GMT
That was tough Lizzy, but you are doing the right thing so good luck.
I haven't thought about leaving a "sort-of suicide note", but I often think, and sometimes say, that I have lived long enough. I have mostly done the the things I wanted to do and now haven't got the getup and go, or stamina, to do more. In fact I feel stuck in a rut. that is why I say "Don't get old", but something just keeps me ticking over. I am mad enough to have booked another trip to Paris in May, and then wonder how I shall cope. As we had drummed into us. "Press on regardless".
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2017 11:04:43 GMT
Keep calm and carry on, Mossie!
|
|
|
Post by mickthecactus on Feb 1, 2017 11:39:13 GMT
That was tough Lizzy, but you are doing the right thing so good luck. I haven't thought about leaving a "sort-of suicide note", but I often think, and sometimes say, that I have lived long enough. I have mostly done the the things I wanted to do and now haven't got the getup and go, or stamina, to do more. In fact I feel stuck in a rut. that is why I say "Don't get old", but something just keeps me ticking over. I am mad enough to have booked another trip to Paris in May, and then wonder how I shall cope. As we had drummed into us. "Press on regardless". I think the phrase is "keep buggering on".
|
|
|
Post by mich64 on Feb 1, 2017 12:45:33 GMT
We attended two funerals in the past few weeks. While one was mostly organized by the deceased, the other was by her daughters who were a bit surprised that there were no instructions left with her lawyer.
The gentleman who passed planned everything including ensuring his kids knew that he did not want any beans or "triangle sandwiches" served for the luncheon he requested after the church service. He wanted a sit down hot meal for those who came to his funeral. There had to be 200 people in the church and about 150 went to the hall for the luncheon. There was a video playing showing family photos, there were speeches and toasts. I think it was very helpful for the family.
The other funeral had the "triangle sandwiches" and lots of cookies for her grandchildren. The sisters will now have work ahead of them finalizing their mother's estate. Two of the sisters live in the US so the one remaining here will do most of the work.
On the drive home from the second funeral, we discussed our wishes and agreed it was time to see a lawyer especially since there is no one legally appointed.
|
|
|
Post by bjd on Feb 1, 2017 15:10:49 GMT
I have an English friend whose father died a few years ago. He had cancer and knew that he would go fairly quickly so left instructions to his family for the funeral. He wanted people to remember the good times they had enjoyed with him so asked that a party should be held and he ordered in several cases of champagne to be enjoyed. The friends and neighbours who attended the funeral/party in their garden did indeed talk about him quite happily.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2017 15:21:00 GMT
Oh yes, see a lawyer. Also, in Canada, line up:
A preliminary obituary Funeral home (have one picked out ahead of time, saves scrambling when you're least able to do so) Explore estate arrangements with your banking institution Pick out an estate accountant (Very important! I've found out that death and Revenue Canada will be wrangling for probably the next three years) Decide how to deal with utilities, house insurance, property taxes Decide what will be done with all of your belongings and who will dispose of them Pick out a real estate appraiser (needed before taxes can be done) Mail arrangements (where will it be forwarded and who will deal with it?)
My Dad had all sorts of information written in a huge binder: lawyer, accountant (who is NOT an estate accountant and who can't handle the estate), banking information and contacts, government contacts for cancelling pensions, etc., medical info, including end-of-life directives, life insurance info, etc. All of which was very important the first few days, but now I have a binder of my own that is even larger, with a whole circle of lawyers, bankers, accountants, advisors, real estate agents and all the various people who were responsible for the upkeep of the house. The house will need to be thoroughly cleaned (how I wish I had K2's little steam cleaning machine), carpets done, painted inside and out, insulation needs to be put in the roof and the gardening needs to be done. Then the massive garage sale.
I also received a pile of his Christmas cards that are slowly being answered, and I have his address book with names that, one by one, are being contacted.
My husband and I have, and will have, no one to do all of this, so I will write out a great whack of instructions soon and set aside a healthy chunk of money to hire someone to deal with it all. It's worth, I'd say, almost six months of full-time employment, from washing bedding to launching probate, to going through the most intimate and heartbreaking belongings.
Perhaps there are companies that deal with settling estates for people for a fee, I certainly hope so, because otherwise it's a pretty big mess to sort out.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2017 16:01:29 GMT
The one advantage I had over all of that was the fact that my parents were relatively antisocial so there were not many people to contact when my father died and practically nobody when my mother died.
My father was super well organised until about the last 18 months, so most of the papers were filed away properly and most of the ones that should have been filed were lying around. It allowed me to see how the decline had progressed and made me mad at myself for not having perceived more of it, even though the clues were everywhere. For example, my mother (with my father's complicity) had become a compulsive coupon user and even had one of those coupon files. But since my parents were a bit old (as all of our parents tended to be), I would go through the file when I would visit -- at first every 6 months, then maybe every 4 months and in the end as often as I could fly from Paris -- and one time I saw that just about all of the coupons had expired and no new ones had been added. Just another example of the lightbulbs going out one by one in my mother's brain. I still cleaned out the file and added all of the coupons from the Sunday paper that I knew would interest them, and made it very clear that I had done so, but it was already too late.
Since my parents had planned on no deaths other than (thank god) the living wills from 10 or so years earlier ("no life support, let me die"), I must admit that I was very happy with the services of the funeral home that I contacted. It provided a lengthy list of all of the things to do when somebody dies, and it was the trivial things that were among the most helpful -- newspaper delivery, magazine subscriptions... I have to admit that I still get angry when I remember calling the St. Petersburg Times to cancel the newspaper. "Do you want a refund or do you prefer to donate the amount to a charity?" Shit, I know it's only maybe $18 but it is not the time to try to put a guilt trip on the survivors. I said I wanted the money.
I am so thankful that I was able to fob off a lot of the details on my brother, even though he was 3000 miles away. At least he was in the same country and (I think) has less of an aversion to making phone calls than I do. I did arrange for a real estate agent to sell the house. I contacted three different places and they came to make their offers. I immediately chose the person whom I was 100% sure that my father would have chosen, and who cares if maybe the others would have been better? I spent 2 weeks taking tons of small items to the Goodwill shop, another ton went in the trash, a couple things went out on the driveway (old TV...) marked 'free' and disappeared within 2 hours, and then I had to bring in the 'junk' dealer for everything else in the house except for what I put into long term storage place until my brother could come from California to pick it up. I think the guy paid about $500 for items worth around $4000, but I don't criticise him at all. Old people drop like flies in Florida and they all have exactly the same crap from the 1980's that only the indigent want now. It was a stroke of luck that the real estate agent wanted to buy the car for his son (probably for about half price, but that was one of my brother's deals), so they made their own arrangements for emptying the house and taking the car away. And the house sold very quickly for a good price.
No need for lawyers or other parasites. My brother and I have never wanted to enter into conflict, so we have never discussed who got what and whether it was fair. One thing that had worried me slightly was the fact that I got all of the money from the sale of the house, but my brother got all of the 'survivor benefits' from my father's death for 11 years (about $1000 a month) on an account that he opened for that.
I don't think that either of us will ever try to work out if one of us came out ahead financially, particularly him. After all, the fact that I took care of our mother for 11 years does not have a monetary value.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2017 16:47:31 GMT
I wish we didn't need a lawyers, but my father had his will residing with them, and then probate has to be launched because of the property being involved (a requirement in BC). I'm trying to keep tham as uninvolved as possible.
|
|
|
Post by lagatta on Feb 1, 2017 18:46:22 GMT
Oh, Mossie grew up with that one!
Still, I definitely want the suicide option if there is evidence of dementia. And no, it is NOT because I want to die.
|
|
|
Post by mich64 on Feb 1, 2017 19:51:37 GMT
That is quite a list Lizzy! I am taking note of all your suggestions. My brother is a real estate agent which is one of the reasons I am considering asking him to be our delegate once we get things organized.
Both of our full names are on everything, all the utilities, property taxes, property ownership, bank accounts and we are each others beneficiary for life insurance and benefits through our employer's, investments and insurances. I, from a very young age, understood the importance of my own personal credit rating and have had a credit card in my own name since I was 20.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2017 20:23:58 GMT
I have a lot of historical RAF and RCAF stuff to deal with, none of it extremely valuable, but of historical and sentimental value. My Dad was a great collector, and knew many WWII Spitfire pilots, one of whom was my Dad's best friend who is absolutely devastated by his death. I could give him some of my Dad's stuff, but what does a blind man in his 90s who lived through the war want with memorabilia?
whatagain, I have an uncle buried in the Reichswald Forest War Cemetery near Kleve, Germany. He was shot down in 1944 at the age of 21. Not so lucky as Mossie. I hope to be able to visit the site sometime in the future.
|
|
|
Post by tod2 on Feb 2, 2017 6:31:33 GMT
Whatagain - your suggestion of a Get Together with Mossie & friends is fantastic. I do hope it comes off. If I remember correctly Mossie and I both chose a lamb dish at our lunch meeting with Kerouac.
|
|
|
Post by fumobici on Feb 3, 2017 3:59:52 GMT
My stepfather died yesterday. He was quite miserable in his bed-ridden condition and last I saw him face to face a couple of months ago, flat said he wished he could die. I'll be taking the train south for the memorial service at his church next week. I have a rather complex and contradictory set of emotions playing on me, but I am looking forward to seeing the clan together again as I do like most of them quite a lot and even the rest I still like.
|
|