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Post by kerouac2 on Oct 4, 2018 19:33:31 GMT
I was pretty lucky that my father (who lasted until age 86) pretty much understood what he couldn't do anymore -- except for driving the car. He probably understood that, too, but it was impossible NOT to drive the car where they were living in Florida. He admitted being pulled off the road more than once by the police, but he was not ticketed because in Florida, the police apparently understand that the road is full of really old people who shouldn't be driving but who have no other option. As for the other activities, he didn't admit to not doing them anymore -- I just noticed that he wasn't doing them.
It is lucky that he died before my mother, because I could have NEVER gotten my parents into a nursing home. Once he was gone, though, my mother was willing to obey me. (I hate that concept, but that's exactly what it was.)
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Post by lagatta on Oct 4, 2018 23:19:51 GMT
Well, I'd rather die than be moved to a nursing home, and with luck will have that option when the (horrible) time comes. No, not remotely suicidal, just can't stand the thought of living under the tutelage of others.
My parents, who were relatively old when I was born, are both dead, though my mum lived to 98.
I have a friend (a retired professor) who has stage 4 bladder cancer and is going through all manner of treatments; he responds well to them but I'm not terribly optimistic. Fortunately for the moment he is staying at a rather deluxe private respite facility; we think a couple of his sons who have lucrative professional jobs are contributing to that, as he only got tenure rather late in his professional life. His wife, who I've known for well over 40 years, was at her wits end and it is fortunate that she has a bit of breathing space.
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Post by mossie on Oct 5, 2018 19:45:59 GMT
I must stop reading this thread.
No way do I want to go into a nursing home. And I realise that I will have to face that very difficult decision one day, to give up driving.
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Post by Kimby on Oct 6, 2018 3:08:44 GMT
Mr. Kimby’s dad spent the last 3 years of his life in a nursing home within walking distance of the apartment his Mom lived in for the rest of her life. The care was very good, too good, I fear. He lingered long past any quality of life, mostly blind, mostly deaf and unable to ambulate. If he hadn’t been a lifelong Catholic he might have rebelled against his fate, but he toughed it out to the end.
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Post by bjd on Oct 6, 2018 18:13:27 GMT
My mother just spent another two weeks in hospital. When I called this afternoon, she sounded terrible so I am going to fly to Toronto to see her next week. She told me she would try to stay alive until then.
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Post by mickthecactus on Oct 6, 2018 19:30:29 GMT
This is not fun. So sorry.
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Post by bjd on Oct 17, 2018 5:26:05 GMT
I got back yesterday afternoon from Canada. When I arrived on WEdnesday morning, my mother looked and sounded awful and didn't even realize who I was. She kept saying I didn't look like her daughter. But after a while, she agreed that I was who I said I was. The first two days, I didn't stay more than an hour with her because visibly it was really tiring for her, but by Friday, she had perked up, was sitting up to talk to me and refused help to get to the bathroom. Her mind had cleared too and we were able to have conversations that were more or less normal, although the philosophical side of "why do people live so long" did come up repeatedly.
She has been getting visits from her grandsons too. They are making an effort to come to see her although they are both working and have young children and busy lives.
What rather worries me is that on Monday, the last day I was there, every time I left her, even to go to the kitchen, she started calling me, wondering where I was. When I explained that I was leaving for home, she kept saying, "What am I going to do without you." This made me feel terrible, even though there is not much I can do to be there more often. Already I had to impose on a friend so I could stay with him for my visits. I also have a cousin there but her mother-in-law is 97 and dying too, so it was not a cheerful time all around.
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Post by kerouac2 on Oct 17, 2018 6:24:36 GMT
I think a lot of us know how tough it all is, but that never makes it easier. Even when you do a lot, you always think that you should have done more. But you can't.
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Post by lugg on Oct 17, 2018 9:04:01 GMT
So awful for you bjd. I think that what K2 said is spot on. Hope your FIL continues to recover whatagain
I went to visit my MIL( I still call her that even though she is not anymore) a couple of weeks ago and was shocked at how much she had deteriorated since the last time I saw her. I am in a difficult situation as I am divorced from her son. Anyway when I came home I phoned him and managed to get him to agree to come home from Holland and meet her with me to talk to her about getting some help. I know that she would want to stay in her home as long as possible and that's what we need to try to sort out. She is 91 next month and has always been fit as a fiddle and so well groomed and super house proud. Its very sad particularly as she is getting more and more confused.
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Post by patricklondon on Oct 18, 2018 10:48:13 GMT
I know that she would want to stay in her home as long as possible and that's what we need to try to sort out. She is 91 next month and has always been fit as a fiddle and so well groomed and super house proud. Its very sad particularly as she is getting more and more confused. If this is the UK, I think there's still a legal entitlement to get at least an assessment of needs from a social services occupational therapist, and they mght have all sorts of ideas to provide help and support to enable someone to stay at home as long as possible. My blog | My photos | My video clips | My Librivox recordings"too literate to be spam"
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Post by kerouac2 on Oct 18, 2018 12:31:29 GMT
France has that, too, but I don't know about Canada.
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Post by questa on Oct 18, 2018 13:10:07 GMT
Oz has a system where the govt pays organisations to train and manage carers for ageing people.The carer and client decide on what is needed to keep the client in their own home. Can be full time care or just someone who needs help with gardening, housework, walk the dog or bath it. The client pays for what they want help with and the govt subsidizes the cost. There are church groups as well as not-for-profit or businesses that provide the services. If English is not the clients first language, they try to get a carer who speaks their language.
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Post by bjd on Oct 18, 2018 14:01:29 GMT
In Canada too, or at least in Toronto, there is a community care system where a carer can come in and help wash the person or do a few things. If a person is considered unable to live alone, somebody comes to evaluate the person's capacity to be alone. There is a long waiting list for public nursing homes because private ones are very expensive.
Where my mother is now, in a senior's residence, staff will bring up meals for those who don't go to the dining room, and will help with baths and cleaning too as part of service in the building. They told us that my mother would have to move to a nursing home but in fact, she doesn't need constant nursing. For the first time in years, she didn't complain of back pain. They bring her medicine now because she threw out her heart pills and didn't take anything for two weeks, leading to hospitalization.
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Post by kerouac2 on Oct 18, 2018 14:56:42 GMT
That is fine as long as the regular people are giving the medicine and supervising. When I would go to see my mother I knew immediately if it wasn't the usual person, because I would find the pills on the floor.
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Post by Kimby on Oct 18, 2018 17:15:19 GMT
While our paid care givers could give ”pill reminders” they were not allowed to actually administer medicarions. Many pharmacies will set up pill trays with compartments for days of the week, and times of day, for a small fee. That allows the caregivers to place the tray in front of the patient with the correct compartment open, and no rules are broken. We actually hired a friend who lived in the same village as our parents to fill their pill trays once a week and check in on our parents and the caregivers several times a week. This was very reassuring to us daughters as well as to Mom and Dad.
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Post by bjd on Oct 18, 2018 17:58:22 GMT
After my mother threw out her medicine a month ago and didn't take any heart or high blood pressure pills for 2 weeks, my sister asked that the pills be brought by someone at the residence. They had my mother sign a paper accepting this, claiming she was sound of mind and had to give her agreement. While I was there, a woman came twice a day with the necessary meds, handed them over and watched my mother swallow them.
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Post by kerouac2 on Oct 18, 2018 18:28:17 GMT
At my mother's place, the nurses just crushed the pills and mixed them with jam. I learned that people in that condition will eat anything sweet in a spoon.
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Post by lugg on Oct 18, 2018 19:15:12 GMT
Thank you Patrick -just need to persuade her
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Post by bixaorellana on Oct 25, 2018 23:35:31 GMT
[ lugg wrote: Reply #2276 on Oct 17, 2018 at 4:04am] I went to visit my MIL( I still call her that even though she is not anymore) a couple of weeks ago and was shocked at how much she had deteriorated since the last time I saw her. I am in a difficult situation as I am divorced from her son. Anyway when I came home I phoned him and managed to get him to agree to come home from Holland and meet her with me to talk to her about getting some help. I know that she would want to stay in her home as long as possible and that's what we need to try to sort out. She is 91 next month and has always been fit as a fiddle and so well groomed and super house proud. Its very sad particularly as she is getting more and more confused. Where my mother is now, in a senior's residence, staff will bring up meals for those who don't go to the dining room, and will help with baths and cleaning too as part of service in the building. They told us that my mother would have to move to a nursing home but in fact, she doesn't need constant nursing. my sister asked that the pills be brought by someone at the residence. They had my mother sign a paper accepting this, claiming she was sound of mind and had to give her agreement. At my mother's place, the nurses just crushed the pills and mixed them with jam. I learned that people in that condition will eat anything sweet in a spoon. I am really reluctant to post in this thread, partly because I have no desire to revisit the years of my father's decline and also because I feel it's a violation of my mother's privacy to talk about her in this context. But there are several things that I'd like to address because of the comments quoted above. First of all, Kerouac is referring to a nursing home. Bjd is referring to an assisted living center/seniors' residence. It's an important difference, as anyone still in possession of her faculties or still capable of caring for herself would want to avoid going into a nursing home. When my mother checked out assisted living, it was made very clear that meals in the room, help with bathing, pills administered, etc. were all extras. She was also given a sheet showing the charge for these extras, which were all quite reasonable. It was stressed that people are encouraged to come to the dining room for meals. Once my mother moved into her assisted living apartment, she was a little balky, I think because she considered it a failure to be moving out of her own house. But bit by bit she came around -- stopped skipping breakfast, joined in group activities, began going on excursions. Now, personality- and attitude-wise, I would say she is back to her old self, which is to say outgoing, friendly, funny, vain (in a good way) and generally interested in life. When I went to see my mother back in September of 2016 after one of her bouts in the hospital, I thought that it was good that I was there to say goodbye as I was sure she was near death. It was obvious she was depressed, was eating poorly, was not keeping up with any of her interests, & certainly was not being very nice. She moved into assisted living in October of that year. Of course I've seen her various times since then and each time there is huge improvement. I was sent a picture of her the other day & was amazed that she looked twenty years younger than she did in September of '16. That's quite dramatic for someone in her 90s to improve that much in only two years! Sorry this is so long-winded, but it's to show where I'm coming from when I say I can see how upsetting Bjd's experience was when she visited her mother. Since her mother is in assisted living and does not need a nursing home, I well know how dispiriting it is when you see decline that is perhaps unnecessary. Bjd, is there a social worker there or an activities director who might be able to coax your mother into a bit more participation in the life of the facility? I really feel dreadful for you. As for getting home help: my mother had all of that & really, I think it just turns the old person into more of an old person and not in a good way. It's the interaction with other people afforded by assisted living plus being on a healthful schedule of meals that really turned my mother's life around. I'm addressing this to Lugg, as she is in a delicate position in regard to her mother-in-law anyway. The way my mother wound up making the decision was because I casually asked her if she wanted to go look at the place. Since a friend of hers from a professional women's group is the liaison there, it was a matter of picking up the phone & getting the tour. By the time it was over, Mama was ready to sign on. It didn't hurt that quite a few people she knew were already living out there. She has also made new friendships since moving in. Anyway, Lugg, if you can maybe steer your mil and her son in that direction, it might be a happy fit for her and a big weight off her son's mind since he doesn't live near.
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Post by bjd on Oct 26, 2018 7:36:22 GMT
Thanks for this, Bixa. You are correct about the differences between assisted living and a nursing home. As it turns out, the waiting list for nursing homes of any kind is so long, that it is unlikely that my mother would be in one before several years. All to the good, since it means she will stay where she is. She has improved since I left and last time I called she sounded quite well. However, I have no illusions that she is suddenly going to join in any kind of social life, since she didn't do so when she was feeling much better. But that is a whole other story.
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Post by Kimby on Oct 26, 2018 16:33:51 GMT
Right, my parents were not into making new friends as the old ones died and their own social skills waned. They were happier in their own home with help than they would have been anywhere else.
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Post by kerouac2 on Oct 26, 2018 17:13:42 GMT
My mother was not sociable (nor am I) but of course by nursing home stage there was not a snowball's chance in hell of making new friends, except no -- she did become attached to certain people without thinking of them as friends. Unfortunately one of the first ones she liked died quickly and that was a major setback. Luckily, quite a few of the people she didn't like also died. Fair is fair.
My grandmother spent 8 years in a retirement home (not a nursing home), but she was one of the most sociable people whom I have ever known, the kind of person who could not sit in a waiting room for more than 5 minutes without starting a conversation. She participated in every activity that was proposed, went on excursions and was extremely popular. But such things do not last forever.
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Post by whatagain on Oct 26, 2018 20:08:24 GMT
I disagree about you being not sociable.
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Post by questa on Oct 27, 2018 3:50:09 GMT
There is sociable and arms length sociable. I feel I am more sociable with the anyport gang than I am IRL. I don't like being in the company of more than 6 people or so and tend to retreat to help in the kitchen. However I am like Kerouac's mother starting conversations in waiting rooms, bus stops and with random strangers. Specially when travelling.
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Post by mich64 on Oct 27, 2018 4:32:08 GMT
Questa, I too am much more sociable on Anyport than anywhere else in my life. I have been very grateful for this community.
I also look forward to our 2 week holiday every year (and prefer a country where I do not speak the language, it is a little more acceptable not to engage) where I can just relax my brain and know that my husband will talk to me in the way I understand (no slang words/sayings or jokes). I am a bit better when I can prepare (and medicate) for instance, I really did enjoy meeting Tod and her husband last year in Venice and would love to meet more members from Anyport, it is an incredible and enjoyable experience. I smiled a lot (I was happy) but my husband did most of the talking, we can work around it and I can get by without too much embarrassment.
For a few years, my doctors tried giving me exercises/challenges for when I went to the grocery store or shopping fearing I was depending too much on my husband and they were concerned for my future as I age and perhaps the possibility I could be without him. Although I do try, I still panic and have anxiety if I have to do something on my own. I think my parents worry a lot of what would happen if something were to happen to my husband in the future.
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Post by lagatta on Nov 2, 2018 20:15:07 GMT
mich, all I can say from your writing since you arrived at APIAS is that your neurological status seems to have much improved.
Language learning can be very good for the brain, but perhaps that is too much of a challenge - I am not an expert in that particular field.
I still want to die rather than "living" in a nursing home and taking part in pointless "activities", but please don't interpret that as the most remotely suicidal mindset! Just that I'd far rather no longer exist than be something without an active brain.
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Post by mich64 on Nov 3, 2018 2:31:40 GMT
Thank you Lagatta! I really struggle with abstract thought, reading and speech but what I have done is when I write a post on a thread, I read it over and over and make changes to what I originally wrote that might be too formal, direct or concrete. I also think texting with friends is teaching me to be more expressive, I try to pay attention to add punctuation.
I had begun the Babbel program to learn french this past spring. I have a lot of difficulty with the speaking portion but was I was doing really well with the written (typed) portion of the lessons. I can read French much better than speaking it. I got distracted but with winter approaching, I hope to get back to my lessons. I hope to get my husband to work on his German lessons.
I try not to worry about what happen in the future but I do worry if it will be my choice.
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Post by mickthecactus on Nov 3, 2018 10:08:44 GMT
Thank you Lagatta! I really struggle with abstract thought, reading and speech but what I have done is when I write a post on a thread, I read it over and over and make changes to what I originally wrote that might be too formal, direct or concrete. I also think texting with friends is teaching me to be more expressive, I try to pay attention to add punctuation. I had begun the Babbel program to learn french this past spring. I have a lot of difficulty with the speaking portion but was I was doing really well with the written (typed) portion of the lessons. I can read French much better than speaking it. I got distracted but with winter approaching, I hope to get back to my lessons. I hope to get my husband to work on his German lessons. I try not to worry about what happen in the future but I do worry if it will be my choice. Don’t worry Mich, your posts are excellent.
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Post by questa on Nov 3, 2018 12:16:43 GMT
If anyone would like to learn another language just to keep their brain working, have a look at Indonesian. It is a logical language with words spelled just as they sound and grammar with minimal exceptions from basic rules. It also uses poetic phrases for words eg "Mata hari =eye of the day=the Sun".
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Post by Kimby on Nov 3, 2018 13:09:12 GMT
Mich, you are so coherent in your writings that’s it’s always a shock when you remind us of your brain injury! There’s not a clue in your writing, ever.
I’m sorry that speaking doesn’t come easily for you. The challenges must be fatiguing, but I hope embarrassment isn’t part of it. No one should think less of you if your speech is halting.
Maybe you could have a button made to wear on your jacket that says “I have speech difficulties, but there’s nothing wrong with my mind!” People might be more patient and understanding. Which could ease your anxieties, and might even make speaking less fraught.
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