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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2012 20:17:56 GMT
Okay, perhaps the name of this thread is not particularly appealing compared to the multitude of fabulous sights to see in the city of Paris, including the multitude of impeccably manicured parks and gardens. Nevertheless, I always want to take a closer look at what most people never see, so this place was a must. I admit that I had never heard of the place until a week ago, which was already a bit surprising to me -- I thought I knew Paris like the back of my hand. But there was a small article in a publication here, and I decided that I had to go. One reason that I had never encountered the place was because even though it is inside the Paris city limits, to go there you have to take the RER A suburban rail line 3 stops out of the city to Nogent-sur-Marne. Why is this? Because it is on the "back" side of the Bois de Vincennes at the edge of the city. So today, the last day of winter, I took the train to the designated station. Well, at least the city of Nogent knows all about it, because there are signs to lead you there. Okay, I guess I should admit that the official name is not "the abandoned garden of desolation." The more common name would lead you to believe that you are going to see something else, but I knew better. You have to walk through a couple of suburban streets to get back to the Bois de Vincennes. The entrance sign gives a more complicated official name and makes believe that it is a standard park. Time to supply a bit of information about this place then. As you all know, the principal function of the colonial powers was to suck dry all possible resources of the occupied countries. France had perhaps one of the more clever empires and had a firm interest in making the resources last as long as possible. At the end of the 19th century, France set up a tropical agricultural research center in the Bois de Vincennes to coordinate all of the experiments in progress regarding the cultivation of cacao, coffee, bananas, rubber, vanilla, nutmeg and other spices. This place published a sales catalogue every year of about 40,000 seeds and more than 10,000 cuttings, grafts and little potted plants that could be sent around to all of the colonies for the farmers to try their luck. In 1907, the Bois de Vincennes was a major site of the Colonial Exhibition, and they created 5 villages including a zoo of inhabitants for Parisians to gawk at: Indochina, Madagascar, Congo, a Sudanese farm and a Toureg desert camp. Two million people came to see it all during the six months of the exhibition. There were pavilions selling ethnic products and tearooms for sitting to taste the tea, chocolate and coffee. Things quieted down after that, and it can be assumed that when the war began in 1914, this place was no longer a priority at all. Some of the buildings were converted to offices for the CIRAD -- the agricultural research center for developing countries, but it was moved to Montpellier in 1976, and that's when the place was truly abandoned. The whole area was closed off until 2003 when the city of Paris bought the land back from the republic. Since then, it has been cleaned up a bit and reopened as best as possible, but since it is about as far away as one can get from anywhere else in Paris, it is rather obvious that it is not a high priority. So let's finally walk inside. (to be continued)
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Post by bixaorellana on Mar 19, 2012 20:37:00 GMT
I love this already & can't wait to see more. Thanks for finding this place & reporting on it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2012 21:06:59 GMT
Rumour has it that this gate was created for the colonial exhibition of 1906 in the Grand Palais and moved here the following year. An Indochinese association renovated it in 1921, but not much has been done since then. It was severely damaged in the huge tempest of 1999 when 50% of the trees of the Parisian woods were downed.
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Post by auntieannie on Mar 19, 2012 22:22:28 GMT
more, more! it is enchanted!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2012 22:37:00 GMT
I arrived at the Dinh esplanade (thank god I found some information on the net, because there was no information on the scene). There used to be a temple there, imported from the colonial exhibition in Marseille from 1906 (Have you figured out yet that there used to be a colonial exhibition somewhere every year?). Emperor Khai-Dinh even came for a visit from Hué in 1919. Oh well, the temple was destroyed by arson in 1984, but it was replaced by a small new temple in 1992.
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Post by fumobici on Mar 19, 2012 23:18:49 GMT
Excellent. I stumbled upon this same place one bored afternoon looking at the Bois de Vincennes in Google Maps after seeing the intriguing (at least to me) name 'Jardin d'agronomie tropicale' tucked away on the eastern edge of the park and looking at some of the ground level photos linked to it there.
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Post by mich64 on Mar 20, 2012 0:46:20 GMT
It is too bad that it is has been abandoned, it looks like it was an outstanding tribute garden. I do feel it still retains serenity and would be a calming place to investigate. I do hope you could go back in the summer to show it in a more lush state.
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Post by tod2 on Mar 20, 2012 5:53:44 GMT
What a great find Kerouac! Looking at the photos one would never guess in a million years that it was an area near Paris. It definitely looks wholely Asian to me The statues are lovely - especially the lady sitting all prim and proper.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2012 6:17:39 GMT
I will be back some day...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2012 7:11:20 GMT
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Post by bjd on Mar 20, 2012 8:15:32 GMT
Well -- thanks for this, Kerouac. I have never heard of this place either. Will have to go exploring one day when I'm in Paris.
From today's perspective, I wonder how these people in the postcards felt when they were brought to Paris to be exhibited. Was it seen as something positive? How were they chosen?
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Post by tod2 on Mar 20, 2012 8:37:03 GMT
Incredible!! How on earth did you find those old postcards? Just wonderful to compare the old with the new. I hope I have time to see this place firsthand in May but if not - there's always a next time.
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Post by liga on Mar 20, 2012 10:02:04 GMT
beautiful place! Iwish in Florence there were more gardens and parks. All we have is a corner of a japanese garden less than 60 sqm!
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Post by bixaorellana on Mar 20, 2012 19:05:18 GMT
A beautiful, dreamy place & a drop-dead gorgeous report!
It would be interesting to know who is keeping parts of the park spiffed up. In among the fallen roofs and the statues' glades returning to the wild are swept paths and areas that somehow feel visited. Certainly the nearly fresh flowers and still bright ribbons of the commemorative wreaths are evidence that neither the park nor the commemorated are completely forgotten.
I love the sense of romantic abandoment you so exquisitely show. Wouldn't it be wonderful if the park could be restored, but not too restored?
Interesting what you say about Florence, Liga. I once commented to a friend that, for a place that loves children, Oaxaca is woefully deficient in parks where kids can play. She responded that she'd been surprised by that same thing in Italy.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2012 19:20:11 GMT
The park will indeed be restored... some day. And the buildings will be rebuilt since they were added to national monument list in 1994.
There are other buildings left over from various colonial exhibitions in the Bois de Vincennes, but I will get to them in another report.
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Post by frenchmystiquetour on Mar 20, 2012 21:33:20 GMT
Well, you beat me to it. This place is only about a 10 minute bike ride from my house so last fall I went out to have a look at it to prepare a report. I took all kinds of photos and got all kinds of info and then neglected to write my report. Recently I had been thinking it was time I got around to finally writing my report but I see there's no need for that anymore. Did you find all the informational sign boards on the side of one of the administrative buildings or did you get all your info from the web? Well done kerouac.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2012 21:46:38 GMT
I thought about you when I went there, along the lines of "how is at at all possible that FMT did not make a report about this?" I saw the informational sign boards along the length of the Indochina building but I did not approach them to read them. Believe it or not, even though I saw that they were meant for the public, I respected a small barrier and a "forbidden to the public" sign that was there. So those are some photos that you can add here if you want to.
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Post by mich64 on Mar 21, 2012 1:03:27 GMT
Yes FMT! Your photos would be from a different season and show the garden in a different view point. It would be great if you added them.
Cheers! Mich
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Post by liga on Mar 21, 2012 10:17:54 GMT
to bixaorellana - in Florence there are mostly privat gardens or some parks that are open only during particular period of year - like the rose garden or iris garden. Although the rose garden this year opened permanently to pubblic. Then there are some squares and the city park, but they are not really adapted as children playground (trash and dog droppings everywhere), especially the Cascine Park in the dark hours is wel known as the red light alley..... There are some nice parks too, but they are small and they all have opening hours. And I judge always from my Latvian experiance, where a park is an integral part of the city and it is open all the time. There is no such thing as afence around the park. But I think it radicates on the very structure of the city we don't have rich villas or similar feudal structures to exhibit private parks in the city territory, italians do.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2012 22:20:37 GMT
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Post by planejane on Mar 22, 2012 2:28:19 GMT
I was the lucky one that French Mystique took to this park last fall! I felt very lucky exploring this place with him. He shared a lot of historical information which brought it to life for me. Thanks, FM! And thanks, Kerouac, for posting your report! I have many of these same photos!
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Post by fumobici on Mar 22, 2012 5:08:39 GMT
to bixaorellana - in Florence there are mostly privat gardens or some parks that are open only during particular period of year - like the rose garden or iris garden. Although the rose garden this year opened permanently to pubblic. Then there are some squares and the city park, but they are not really adapted as children playground (trash and dog droppings everywhere), especially the Cascine Park in the dark hours is wel known as the red light alley..... There are some nice parks too, but they are small and they all have opening hours. And I judge always from my Latvian experiance, where a park is an integral part of the city and it is open all the time. There is no such thing as afence around the park. But I think it radicates on the very structure of the city we don't have rich villas or similar feudal structures to exhibit private parks in the city territory, italians do. Yes Florence isn't much for public parks is it? There's Boboli (paid entrance), the big one with the hippodrome downriver (15-20 minute bus ride from the centro) and a few squares with lawns. That said the Rose Garden in oltrarno is lovely if a bit of a bugger to find. There's the Istituto dell'Arte grounds there as well but not terribly scenic.
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Post by mich64 on Mar 22, 2012 16:08:24 GMT
The article from Mrs. FMT was surprising to me. I had not expected to find that the history of the garden was so controversial and I can understand why there is no willingness for government to supply the money to restore it when surely the history of how people were brought to live there and be exhibited like they did would be resurrected.
While the premise of staging a cultural exhibit with foliage, architecture, artwork or fashion is one thing, shipping in human beings to be observed in that way must have been psychologically damaging to these individuals.
In contrast, we do have period time theme parks here, such as Upper Canada Village, where people work in costume each day as they would 100 years ago, bake in olden kitchens, tend to animals and crops etc. but they take off their costumes and go home each night to their regular lives in their community.
I do hope the Garden does receive the funds to rebuild the structures and improve the garden spaces, but perhaps the money will have to come from private fund raising efforts by the horticultural societies.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2012 16:28:56 GMT
Fascinating report K2! I'm curious as well about the people brought over to the exhibition,what BJD inquired. Such a strange concept,to display persons in native costumes. Surreal for them I would imagine. It has a perversity about it. I hate seeing the wreck and ruin of all those greenhouses,seemingly well built originally,and many of the other buildings. How odd that there is a building that has it's offices open,what a weird place to come and go to work from. There is indeed a quasi romantic kind of allure to it, the headless statues and the patina on some of the structures. One hears of these world exhibitions,later referred to as World Fairs,held in various major cities all over the world. They were very popular around the turn of the century. New Orleans had a major Cotton Exhibition that I have heard referred to quite often, Saint Louis had a big one as well during that era, Chicago somewhere in and around there.All the pavilions and major structures, some designed by famous architects, built to attract people to visit,much like a Disneyland or Disney world,and then abandoned completely save one or two structures. I see the Unisphere in Flushing,N.Y., a remnant of the 1963-64 World's Fair in N.Y. when I leave JFK airport to head into Manhattan. There it sits idly. I remember what it was there for but,I often wonder what people think seeing this structure (in major disrepair) just sitting there with nothing else connected to it and what it represents as they race by in their cars on the commute to Manhattan and back. Anyway,I'm rambling here...
I loved the old postcards juxtaposed with your photos. A cool report,thanks Kerouac.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2012 17:44:29 GMT
I believe that a lot of the "natives" were actually quite happy to get a free trip to Paris for six months. They were not kept in cages, believe it or not, and dressed normally when they were off duty, probably spending a lot of their time in the cabarets of the Grands Boulevards. I find it hardly different from the cartoon characters walking around Disneyland or people paid to dress up as clowns in shopping malls. I would hate doing it myself, but lots of people find it completely liberating to take on a new role. On the down side, naturally many of them returned home as alcoholics or drug addicts if they survived at all, because being a "carnival attraction" is never a healthy lifestyle anywhere in the world and probably even in the 21st century. Many tragic episodes have been reported such as the Hottentot Venus from South Africa, who was displayed in London and Paris for many years.
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Post by lagatta on Mar 22, 2012 17:51:39 GMT
The "Wild West" shows featuring Indigenous North American people and peoples weren't so very different.
This is a difficult issue, because taking part in old lifeways, dressing in costume etc can also be a useful source of income from tourism, and while tourism has social costs as well, it also enables people to live and work in their home regions.
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Post by mich64 on Mar 22, 2012 21:09:38 GMT
I understand that they came willingly as employment and were probably excited to work abroad, however, when they arrived and were put into perhaps stereotypical roles and faced people staring at them all day... unless they were actors or entertainers?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2012 21:26:52 GMT
I can't imagine that that part of the job was hidden from them -- after all, they were not hired as computer technicians.
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Post by imec on Mar 23, 2012 2:31:55 GMT
This place is fantastic k! And what a playground for a photographer! And while I do feel sorrow and concern for the neglected, derelict structures, I also find them the most interesting. Odd.
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Post by tod2 on Mar 23, 2012 9:13:12 GMT
Kerouac, studying the surrounds even further I THINK it may be possible to combine our visit to Parc Floral from the "Garden of Desolation" - I looked at the Google Earth map and see a small road leading to Route de la Menagerie which in turn links up with Route Circulaire around Lac des Minimes and connecting with other roads eventually arriving at Parc Floral. Would you attempt this direction or is there a better way?
I would love to see this place before it is renovated.
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