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Post by fumobici on May 30, 2022 14:01:49 GMT
I am moderator on a cactus forum which is about 90% active Americans. In the off topic section I started a thread to see what the reactions were of the average educated American. Somebody posted the following this morning:- "I do own guns but I'm not a gun fanatic. I can't in good faith give up my guns, that would leave me unable to protect my family and I from those who wish to do us harm or take what we have worked hard to own. That is the belief shared by most Americans and that will never change." Is America now so lawless? No, just the trebling-in-fear gun nut demographic which is a large minority.
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Post by kerouac2 on May 30, 2022 14:19:32 GMT
What if they fully authorised only the guns that existed when the 2nd amendment was passed, i.e. single shot pistols and muskets? I am so tired of hearing about the 2nd amendment.
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Post by onlyMark on May 30, 2022 15:26:49 GMT
Their solution to having people with guns is to have more people with more guns. What could go wrong?...... And how as that worked out so far........
But, I think the horse has bolted regarding serious gun control. Too late now for that. They will just pay lip service to it and always find justifications to avoid it and water down the regulations. If countless children being killed doesn't sway them, nothing will. Nothing at all.
All hope abandon ye who think otherwise.
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Post by patricklondon on May 30, 2022 16:23:15 GMT
I am moderator on a cactus forum which is about 90% active Americans. In the off topic section I started a thread to see what the reactions were of the average educated American. Somebody posted the following this morning:- "I do own guns but I'm not a gun fanatic. I can't in good faith give up my guns, that would leave me unable to protect my family and I from those who wish to do us harm or take what we have worked hard to own. That is the belief shared by most Americans and that will never change." Is America now so lawless? No, just the trebling-in-fear gun nut demographic which is a large minority. I suppose I shouldn't expect rationality when emotion is so clearly dominant, but if policing and law enforcement are that unreliable, shouldn't redressing that be the focus of that emotion? Likewise, if (as I've heard asserted) the point is to enable a people's militia to resist tyrannical government, what is it about the US Constitution that makes such a thing possible, and shouldn't those faults be addressed? And how come the Constitution can be that faulty but an amendment to it sacred beyond challenge?
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Post by bjd on May 30, 2022 18:45:28 GMT
I hope, Patrick, that you realize that your comment is much too reasonable to be seriously considered by any politician.
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Post by questa on May 30, 2022 23:10:14 GMT
They can't give up their guns...that is a given, but could there be a buy-back of all guns that fire multiple bullets in a given time. Then draw down the number of bullets until the community can accept the death rate.They can still have their guns but more like the real heroes at Alamo, and less of Rambo. Maybe having changed a few attitudes by a co-ordinated advertising campaign and / or a buy-back scheme like in Oz, the subject of hand guns could be explored.
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Post by mossie on May 31, 2022 7:01:06 GMT
I guess that constitution was drawn up when they were still a colony of the evil oppressors.
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Post by tod2 on May 31, 2022 8:38:30 GMT
I only learned of the terrible tragedy over the weekend when I saw our Sunday newspapers. Since then two letters this week to the Editor of our local paper caught my eye and gave me quite a shock with some of the facts. These are the thoughts of some South Africans about the situation so far from our land but in my mind, o so near to our situation. We luckily still have very strict access to owning a gun but of course as everywhere illegal firearms are available at a price. Letter 1: MORE AMERICANS SHOT AT HOME THAN IN WAR Innocent people are being massacred across the U.S. heartland because an ambiguous outdated constitutional law empowers citizens to own guns. It is a sad reality, because politicians are beholden to the gun lobby. The latest massacre in Texas, where 19 young children and others were brutally gunned down in an orgy or relentless firepower is a graphic display of American culture which is based on mindless violence. D.H. Lawrence wrote: "The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic and a killer". The gun has become the drone, the bullet has become the cruise missile.
The National Rifle Association and its horde of gun nuts continually crow that it is not guns that kill people but people who kill people. During the 20th Century 10 million Americans were the victims of violent crimes - 10% of them murdered between 1900 and 1997. Americans killing other Americans during the 20th Century exceeded American deaths in the past six wars. The situation arises today because of an obsolete and currently stupid inclusion in the U.S. constitution of a "right to bear arms", a right that no longer makes any sense except to people who make money selling guns.
The unsavoury truth is that the U.S. is a lawless land. Since it's birth the USA has become a threat in itself, to itself and as beloved Madiba once said, "The biggest threat to world peace". Letter 2. THE USA's MOST FEEBLE ARGUMENT. The National Rifle Association (NRA) of the USA has the most feeble argument of :Guns don't kill people, people kill people". But automatic assault rifles with extended magazines certainly make it a lot easier! Using the NRA's argument would justify making yellow cake Uranium 234 legal to buy as nuclear weapons don't kill people, people do? Sure the Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution says Americans can own firearms but that was in the days of six-shooter pistols and lever action rifles where re-loading under fire was fatal but firearms have vastly improved! Assault rifles are made for killing people, it's right there in its name. Constitutions can be amended to suit the prevailing times.
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Post by mickthecactus on May 31, 2022 9:47:15 GMT
The words head, banging and brick wall apply.
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Post by fumobici on May 31, 2022 14:06:07 GMT
It's baked in mental illness, it's part of the "good guys" killing "bad guys" as the universal solution we've been indoctrinated with since we were American babies. Violence as the ultimate problem solver, non-violent solutions seen as weak, unmasculine, and inadequate. They, in fact, fantasize being the executioner like a kid playing Army, a shallow western movie, action movie, war movie hero and on and on and on.
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Post by kerouac2 on May 31, 2022 15:25:28 GMT
If anything positive has come out of the last two massacres, it might be a change in the Canadian gun laws. The United States still seems to be a lost cause.
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Post by bixaorellana on May 31, 2022 17:43:09 GMT
I guess that constitution was drawn up when they were still a colony of the evil oppressors. Exactly, Mossie. Most of the original constitution can logically be considered as a document designed to create a new country which fixed the bad parts of the old country. Since the old country considered those colonies its own & were determined not to put up with any foolishness from rebellious colonists, the 2nd amendment logically provided for arming the populace to create ad hoc militias to beat back attempts by the motherland to regain control. Theoretically, the federal government could choose to create such militias in the present day, were it deemed necessary. But only fools can interpret that amendment to mean that any civilian jackass can own a gun(s). It's baked in mental illness, it's part of the "good guys" killing "bad guys" as the universal solution we've been indoctrinated with since we were American babies. Violence as the ultimate problem solver, non-violent solutions seen as weak, unmasculine, and inadequate. They, in fact, fantasize being the executioner like a kid playing Army, a shallow western movie, action movie, war movie hero and on and on and on. Nothing to add. You have nailed it.
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Post by kerouac2 on May 31, 2022 18:44:46 GMT
Of course one might wonder why a new constitution has never been written when you see all of the important things that were added in just the first few amendmants. (Of course the United States originated from a country that still does not have a constitution, so maybe it is a stupid question.)
Most countries rewrite their constitutions when too many things are outdated, which seems to me to be the logical thing to do. France is already on its 5th constitution with many demands for a 6th one which might happen within 5 years.
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Post by mickthecactus on May 31, 2022 19:18:45 GMT
Another response- “We all have beliefs based on our experience. We had plenty of guns around when I was a kid and it was even promoted at schools through marksmanship programs. It is part of our culture as well as a constitutional right. Millions of guns in our country. The violence is a result of pure evil in our society. The cities with the highest murder rates have the most restrictive gun laws”.
There really isn’t much hope.
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Post by kerouac2 on May 31, 2022 19:26:52 GMT
These people never seem to want to discuss the utility of assault weapons in the hands of private citizens for "sporting" purposes, which is what they claim they are used for.
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Post by lagatta on May 31, 2022 19:32:08 GMT
Indeed, Canadian gun laws (or at least regulations) were tightened after the two latest US massacres. Buffalo is right on the border and not very far from Toronto.
For Fox News, no-go zones in Paris were those inhabited by Black and Brown people. I guess if the victims were Black or Brown, that doesn't count.
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Post by bixaorellana on May 31, 2022 21:01:06 GMT
... there have been at least 14 mass shootings in the U.S. since the Uvalde murders, killing at least 10 people and wounding another 61 ... ... Texas governor Greg Abbott boasted last year of signing at least 7 new laws to make it easier to get guns, including a law allowing people to carry handguns without permits. When Abbott visited Uvalde on Sunday, people booed him. ... Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) ... told CNN on Thursday that he has encouraged Senator John Cornyn (R-TX) to meet with Democrats to try to hash out a bipartisan solution in response to the Uvalde school shooting .... As Ashley Parker and Michael Scherer detailed on Saturday in the Washington Post, McConnell “has spent his career working to delay, obstruct or prevent most major firearms restrictions from being approved by Congress.” His approach has consistently been to suggest vague support for a solution, then to undercut any action. And Cornyn boasts an A+ rating from the National Rifle Association, suggesting his enthusiasm for gun safety reform might be well under control. SOURCEMuch as I respect Heather Cox Richardson and rely on her historical background essays on current events. I fear she is fooling herself if she thinks that ----- The fury of the response to the Uvalde murders, after many years in which many in the country seemed to move on from dramatic mass murders seems to me a reflection not only of the unspeakable carnage in this country, but also of the political corruption that permits it to take place.---- will provoke a public response similar to that created by the murder of George Floyd, that will in turn lead to reform. It should, but I hold out no hope.
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Post by bjd on Jun 1, 2022 19:26:20 GMT
That moron, Marjorie Taylor Greene, strikes again. She claims the bill the Canadian government just introduced to strengthen gun control even more in Canada will mean that Canadians won't be able to defend themselves against a Russian invasion.
"Canada’s prime minister, Justin Trudeau, introduced the legislation on Monday in the wake of last week’s deadly school shooting in Uvalde, Texas. The bill would ban the sale and purchase of handguns, effectively capping their numbers in Canada. In addition, Mr Trudeau proposed a mandatory buyback program for assault weapons – including AR-15s, like the one used in Uvalde – which have been banned in Canada since 2021.
Ms Greene was outraged. Without guns in the hands of its citizens, she reasoned, Canada would be powerless to stop Russian invaders.
“Canada has an incredibly weak military & now with Trudeau’s gun grab, his people are left defenseless not only by a criminal attacker, but also defenseless against another country’s military invasion,” the Republican tweeted. “This is a terrible violation of rights to innocent Canadians by their Gov.”
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Post by mickthecactus on Jun 1, 2022 19:35:51 GMT
Nothing surprises me on this subject any more.
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Post by kerouac2 on Jun 2, 2022 3:55:04 GMT
With the Tulsa hospital shooting, those people who want to arm schoolteachers should also want to arm doctors and nurses.
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Post by whatagain on Jun 3, 2022 6:51:49 GMT
Time to call back John Wayne.
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Post by mickthecactus on Jun 3, 2022 7:54:12 GMT
I just read that there have now been 20 mass shootings since Uvalde.
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Post by onlyMark on Jun 4, 2022 6:12:30 GMT
I read this morning about a company that makes Tasers considering one solution to mass shooting is to arm a drone with a taser. What could go wrong....? When that isn't effective they'll put a gun on one instead no doubt.
I've decided they ought to split the USA in half. Anyone who is in favour of guns live in one part and those against, live in the other. Then somehow, maybe due to trade between the two halves, gradually cut off the gun owning part so they have less and less resources. Watch then how they kill each other. The only way for them to survive is to give up firearms completely, either individually whereby they will be go to the other half and live normally, or en masse where everyone gives up and the border is opened.
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Post by whatagain on Jun 4, 2022 10:02:19 GMT
One interesting topic is the enquiry into the passivity of the cops who were first on the scene. If - if, because i would like to have facts, not media infotainment - the cops indeed stayed one hour without intervening, then indeed gun lovers will never surrender their weapons. One has to have a good police to take on the bad guys. If not, well, it may be a good idea to defend oneself.
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Post by kerouac2 on Jun 4, 2022 10:41:20 GMT
Well, the cops themselves were just following the orders of their chief. So attention needs to be paid on how chiefs give orders... or not.
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Post by casimira on Jun 4, 2022 15:53:06 GMT
There's nothing funny about it but you're right Huckle about the coffee and donut truck. It gave my husband and I a good chuckle. The sad part is that it's true.
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Post by Kimby on Jun 4, 2022 16:46:06 GMT
There are lots of types of gun owners in the US. Many, maybe even most, are conscientious about gun safety and would never allow their weapons to kill a human. Others are “preppers” or survivalists eager for the apocalypse that will allow them to out-gun the rest of us and take our food supplies to feed their own families. I come from a hunting tradition and owned a single shot 20 gauge shotgun until it was stolen in a home burglary. I never took to hunting, but shooting clay pigeons was fun. I wish I still had that shotgun for eliminating destructive gophers (and for blasting a home invader off his intended mission, if need be.). But I won’t be buying another weapon. When Dad died, he left behind a collection of 14 sporting rifles and shotguns, plus 3 handguns for self defense (home, cabin and RV). All three were loaded with a round chambered when my sister delivered them to the retired lawman who sells pre-owned weapons. We netted over $7000 for those weapons. Here’s a link to photo essays of “normal American gun owners” with their weapons. www.gabrielegalimberti.com/the-ameriguns/
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Post by mickthecactus on Jun 24, 2022 11:57:59 GMT
I see the old favourite Marjorie TG says you have God given American gun rights.
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Post by bixaorellana on Jun 24, 2022 14:54:23 GMT
stolen in a home burglary When I lived in New Orleans the cops used to say that over half of the guns on the street were stolen from "law abiding citizens". Too many guns out there! I see the old favourite Marjorie TG says you have God given American gun rights. Even though MTG is the human(?) equivalent of phlegm on the sidewalk, that quote sums up what too many Americans believe.
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Post by kerouac2 on Jun 24, 2022 15:34:01 GMT
I don't think that I have anything that is god given. Where do I queue up to get my share?
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