A little look at Ljubljana.

[onlyMark]

In ancient times the city was just marshland and is now home to the oldest wooden wheel and axle known to us. It has been dated to being about 5,200 years old and made of ash and oak.
A river runs through the centre of the city which is spanned by many bridges, the most famous being the Dragon Bridge - the dragon is a symbol of Ljubljana and supposedly derived from the story of St George.
For a city, and a capital, it only has a population of something over 300,000, but considering Slovenia itself only has around 2 million, its size is proportional.

At times being ruled by the Romans, Austrians, Hungarians, Italians and Germans, it eventually became part of the greater Yugoslavia until becoming independent in 1991.
The food is influenced by its closeness to Italy, Croatia, Hungary and Austria so that even as it has its own traditional dishes, it is easy to find many restaurants serving Slovenian takes on other European food. In spending time in the country I can also say it is one of those countries where you can go less than an hour away from the capital and the dishes change depending on which direction you are heading.

In the capital English is widely spoken as well as German, Italian and Croatian, in fact any Slovene I’ve met often knows two other languages apart from their own. I do have a history and a soft spot for the country due to Mrs M but the other side to the abundance of varying countryside, historical buildings influenced by their country neighbours, the outdoor life, the skiing, cave systems and good food is the language is as impenetrable as the bureaucracy - e.g. the language changes people’s names depending on the context of them being spoken about.
Nevertheless, if you’ve been there I hoped you liked it as I find it, as an outsider but with local experiences as charming and interesting.
It’s probably the most international of the Balkan countries and the more “European” than any other.

We drove there from Sarajevo on the way to Germany last weekend and stopped off to visit a relative so had a couple of hours walk round.
The weather though, didn’t bode well by the time we weren’t too far away and near Zagreb -

[onlyMark]

We arrived late in the day but even though cold, the sunshine was welcome -












In the city are a number of bridges crossing the river which cuts through the centre. Why they need that many I’ve no idea -




We had a wander down one side and back up the other through the older part of town -

[kerouac2]

Good start. I have always been tempted to go to Ljubljana.

[bjd]

Thanks for this. When I went to various cities with a friend some years ago, we considered Ljubljana but it was quite expensive compared to other places we looked at and we thought the city would not be enough to fill 5 days. We didn't drive anywhere so that limited options. But it does look very nice and Austro-Hungarian.

As for "the language changes people’s names depending on the context of them being spoken about." That's perfectly normal in any language with declensions and all Slavic languages have declensions.

[onlyMark]

I'm ignorant about languages. Don't most languages have declensions? I know Slavic languages have a lot of them and I think German does as well, but German doesn't change the ending of my name. I am always Mark no matter the context.

Edited to add - Just asked a Slavic language speaker about declensions - all nouns can have their ending changed in them but in Germen declensions not, only the der, die, dem thing at the beginning. So I think it's not just having declensions that means I become Marko but having more than a certain amount as you do get in Slavic languages. Does that make sense? French has declensions, no? But I am still always Mark and a wardrobe is always a wardrobe?

[onlyMark]

The castle dominates to outlook. It displays the country and city flags -










There is property available, probably best turned into apartments, but prices at one time were reasonable, but now are shooting up -

[onlyMark]

Nicely done passage under a building to get from one street to a parallel one behind it -








Yes, salami made from bear meat. They at times have too many bears in the country so cull them when they become a problem to the inhabitants. This salami is made with 70% bear meat, 20% venison and 10% pork.
Strong taste but a little is good from time to time -




Wandered back to the car, visited the in-law and carried on driving.

[mickthecactus]

Mar 15, 2023 19:01:21 GMT onlyMark said:

I'm ignorant about languages. Don't most languages have declensions? I know Slavic languages have a lot of them and I think German does as well, but German doesn't change the ending of my name. I am always Mark no matter the context.

Edited to add - Just asked a Slavic language speaker about declensions - all nouns can have their ending changed in them but in Germen declensions not, only the der, die, dem thing at the beginning. So I think it's not just having declensions that means I become Marko but having more than a certain amount as you do get in Slavic languages. Does that make sense? French has declensions, no? But I am still always Mark and a wardrobe is always a wardrobe?

I can’t imagine too many declensions in Nottingham.

[onlyMark]

Conversation consists generally as a series of drunken grunts.

[mich64]

Interesting report Mark. We plan to visit in September if all goes well with some appointments. We were actually talking today about booking flight tickets next week so this report happened for me to see at the right moment!

Bear meat is available here but not in restaurants. We know a few hunters that hunt bear by bow every year during the spring and fall season, you have to buy a license. I do not know any that make salami out of the meat but I will now ask. We have enjoyed deer and moose salami.

My husband's grandfather is from Slovenia, a village outside of Ljubljana, we hope to visit.

[bjd]

It looks like a nice city -- I really like that Austro-Hungarian architecture.

re languages. English, French, Spanish do not have declensions. German has 4. It's not the der, die, das, it's the change in the ending of the noun depending on its role in a sentence, ie. subject, direct or indirect object, object of a preposition.

Slavic languages have more. Russian has 6, Polish 7. I don't know about the others. In addition to the same declensions as Russian, Polish also has a vocative, in other words, the end of a person's name changes when you speak to them. This was the case in Latin, if I'm not mistaken.

[onlyMark]

bjd, when I look up if Spanish/French have declensions it says yes they do (but in adjectives?). German as said, does. But just having declensions in the language doesn't mean the end of the noun changes. It's only when you get the more that Slavic languages have that the end of say, a person's name changes. That's the info I can find. Also Slovenian only has six declensions but the person's name changes.
I'm not sure if you are saying, in post 3, that any language with declensions changes the noun ending or it takes declensions to change the name ending but not all languages with declensions do. It more depends on the amount of them rather than the existence.
Nevertheless, I go by your knowledge as it is far in excess of mine.

mich, nice coincidence. But 'appointments'? I presume you mean just meeting up with people and nothing bureaucratic. How will you get around? Someone in-country who will take you here and there? Nothing is far away from the city and there is lots to see outside its boundaries.

[fumobici]

Romance languages definitely lack declensions. I think my early discovery of them (among other issues) put paid to my early pursuit of German as a subject of study. Plus, speaking German hurts my mouth, whereas speaking French or Italian makes it feel good.

I've had bear once, when a friend and skilled professional cook made a batch of bear stroganoff from some meat he was gifted by a bear hunter. It was fine, but not much different to beef in that heavily sauced context if I'm being honest.

[onlyMark]

So you can bear bear but it's not a favourite?

All I can say further about declensions, because I don't really know what I'm talking about or what they are is that in the Romance language of French, Wikipedia on their French grammar page say, "Adjective declension is therefore important in spoken French, though to a lesser extent than in writing. (All forms distinguished in pronunciation are also distinguished in writing, but not vice versa.)"
In English I know what a verb and a noun is but when people start talking of things like a past participle, I'm completely blank.
I'll leave it with you.

[bjd]

I think the Wikipedia writer is mixing up declensions in verbs (which is what Fumo and I were talking about) and the fact that adjectives agree with nouns in French, Spanish and other Romance languages as well as German, but not in English. This is because words are gendered in Romance or Slavic languages, so if you have a plural or feminine noun, the adjective agrees with it. Since English does not have gendered nouns, adjectives are constant.

A quick look at Wikipedia (again!) tells me that any form of change in a word is now called a declension in linguistics.

[kerouac2]

Bear was on the menu in Sapa, Vietnam but I did not order it.

[onlyMark]

They've moved the goalposts then. That probably accounts for it.

[mich64]

Mar 16, 2023 7:47:04 GMT onlyMark said:

mich, nice coincidence. But 'appointments'? I presume you mean just meeting up with people and nothing bureaucratic. How will you get around? Someone in-country who will take you here and there? Nothing is far away from the city and there is lots to see outside its boundaries.

Not appointments in Slovenia, we are waiting to hear about some appointments here before we decide to buy our flight tickets and get on with the final plans.

Our plan is to arrive in Vienna, spend a few days and then take the train to Salzburg where we will pick up a reserved rental car. Then drive south through Austria to Slovenia. We have some of his grandfathers papers from Slovenia so we hope to visit the town he was born in. He was an only child to a single mother, we do not have much information on his mother besides her name and their birthplace so we are not on a relative search we just to see a bit of Slovenia and the area where he grew up before moving to France.

[onlyMark]

Sounds a good plan then. Hope you enjoy it.
Remember if you are in a car you will need what's called a vignette to travel on the motorways in Austria and Slovenia. An Austrian rental can might already have one for Austria but you'd have to check and I doubt it would have one for Slovenia though.

[nycgirl]

I love the picture of that first building, beautiful colors and patterns.

[mich64]

Mar 17, 2023 5:36:50 GMT onlyMark said:

Remember if you are in a car you will need what's called a vignette to travel on the motorways in Austria and Slovenia. An Austrian rental can might already have one for Austria but you'd have to check and I doubt it would have one for Slovenia though.

Thank you Mark! We knew we would need a vignette for Austria (have visited twice previously) but were unaware of the need for one in Slovenia so thank you for saving me some research. Airline tickets have now been purchased and car rental reserved, vignette for Austria included.

[onlyMark]

Lovely. You can buy them at virtually any petrol station near to the border or there should be somewhere at the order itself. I think you can buy them online but I've never done that. It also still maybe law that you have to drive with headlights on even in the day. Don't know.

[cheerypeabrain]

Great stuff Mark, thank you for the lovely photos and interesting information. I love the (first) fancy building in your 2nd post

[onlyMark]

Thanks Cheery.

[lugg]

Nearly missed this treat ...

Wow that first photo . Bear meat ---nope

Looking forward also to seeing any of your trip Mich that you have time to post

[mich64]

Thank you for the information regarding the headlights, I will research that issue. My husband usually looks up rules of the roads whenever we travel so he gets a refresh for each country.

Looking forward to compiling a report of our holiday Lugg!

[bixaorellana]

When I think of the Austro-Hungarian Empire I think of grandness, and Ljubljana seems quite grand. In the photos, I half expected to see a man in a feathered uniform hat entering a building or women burdened with flounces and bustles dismounting from carriages.

It seems logical that prices would be going up there, what with the canals, etc., making it such an appealing city. I can see myself in that yellow house, the one right after the second canal view.

Thanks for showing this, Mark. It's definitely not a place that was on my radar before.