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Post by kerouac2 on Sept 23, 2023 21:57:44 GMT
This is becoming more and more controversial since it is costing a fortune, far more than originally planned. But what I don't know is what public opinion thinks of it. To me, it seems essential, just like the high speed rail lines that were built (and are still being built) on the continent, but the UK seems to be lagging in this endeavour and unsure of its necessity. How is that even possible? Do they think that the Hogwarts Express is sufficient for going north?
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Post by mossie on Sept 24, 2023 6:36:31 GMT
I agree it is an essential bit of infrastructure. the problem is we do not have a strong person in charge to push it through or control the costs.
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Post by whatagain on Sept 24, 2023 7:17:48 GMT
You bet HS2 is a project that smells bad…
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Post by mickthecactus on Sept 24, 2023 9:08:13 GMT
I agree it is an essential bit of infrastructure. the problem is we do not have a strong person in charge to push it through or control the costs. Spot on Mossie. And that goes for things like Grenfell and the Post Office and Windrush debacles. |
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Post by mossie on Sept 24, 2023 14:16:28 GMT
Talk about a gravy train. It all reminds me of the old service saying "Couldn't organise a pissup in a brewezy"
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Post by kerouac2 on Sept 24, 2023 16:03:20 GMT
Just about every major infrastructure project in the world goes overbudget these days (or even 300 years ago), but I'm still not sure why. Do the people promoting these projects lie on purpose to get the project approved? Do they just not understand all of the economic repercussions? Are the contractors all just greedy thieves? Are the politicians pocketing some of the money? (How?) Are interest groups like the Greens purposely sabotaging plans by throwing in obstacles? I know that one is tempted to say "all of the above" but there must be some who are guiltier than others.
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Post by kerouac2 on Sept 27, 2023 6:12:34 GMT
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Post by onlyMark on Sept 27, 2023 12:25:04 GMT
In the video it is said of a railway line being built 175 years ago and we can't do that now. It doesn't say though how much over budget that was. The point being in terms of technology it can be built but going over budget is not a new thing. It seems two thirds of projects will go over budget by at least ten percent. Berlin airport went way over and one of the worst is/was Sydney Opera House. Budgeted at $56M, final cost $819M.
What I don't get is the kerfuffle of the HS2 doing so. Surely it is expected.
There does come a point where you're throwing good money after bad, but in these sorts of projects where it seems the money is always found it needs as said some strong person to kick some arses around.
We recently put a deposit down on an apartment being newly built. Three months later the developer/builder gave us and everyone else our money back because he said there was no way now he could make a profit. He said he would reassess the costs and put them back on the market and we'd have first refusal at the new price. A year later there's still no notification and I know more or less for sure it'd be above what we can afford.
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Post by kerouac2 on Sept 27, 2023 14:07:52 GMT
What I don't get is the kerfuffle of the HS2 doing so. Surely it is expected. That's what makes no sense to me. Obviously it is natural to make a fuss about cost overruns, but this rail line in NECESSARY and needs to be built no matter what. We're a quarter of the way into the 21st century, and if they had cancelled motorways or airports 40 or 50 years ago when they were partially built, I don't think very many people would be happy about it. Even the Eurotunnel which I'm sure would be the butt of many jokes ("we don't need the useless continent," etc.), if it didn't exist, traffic in the English Channel would be a total nightmare now (it pretty much already is) and you can how imagine much everybody would bitch when ferries are cancelled due to bad weather.
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Post by onlyMark on Sept 27, 2023 16:50:39 GMT
Looking at the history of the tunnel, the first proposal was in 1802 and the budget was probably about thrupence hapeney and ended up over budget by quite a lot, costing nine billion pounds.
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Post by cheerypeabrain on Sept 27, 2023 17:07:45 GMT
We don't even have an electrified line in the Midlands. The Robin Hood line is in dire need of an overhaul.
The cost of rail travel is beyond your average pensioner these days. The only way to guarantee a seat is to pay for a first class ticket (which costs 3 or 4 times the price of a normal ticket). The strikes atm mean that trains are often cancelled. I haven't been on a train since I met up with some (gorgeous) Anyporters in 2016!
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Post by mickthecactus on Sept 27, 2023 17:56:34 GMT
We don’t need a 250mph train, we are too small. 125 would be quite enough.
The money should have been spent upgrading existing facilities and getting them to run regularly and on time. Present services are appalling. And to think we invented them...
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Post by kerouac2 on Oct 3, 2023 5:50:45 GMT
Looks like Sunak has completely derailed. He won't be getting very many votes in the north.
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Post by cheerypeabrain on Oct 3, 2023 15:13:40 GMT
I agree with Mick, our rail serices are appalling. Expensive, ineptly run and inconvenient. As a young girl living in Bedfordshire I could walk the 2 miles from my village (Westoning) to Flitwick station...there I could catch a train to London (every hour until 11pm) or just go into Luton, Hitchin or Bedford, the nearest towns. I rarely had to stand. Nowadays the only way to ensure a comfortable journey is to book a first class seat...so expensive....and there is no guarantee that the train will turn up at all...(and once you get to where you're going you might not be able to get home).
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Post by lugg on Oct 4, 2023 18:49:09 GMT
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Post by kerouac2 on Dec 27, 2023 17:26:37 GMT
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