A bit of politics in the NL

[whatagain]

Netherlands are my neighbours
I never go there and I don’t get their culture.
They say they are direct, go to the point and are welcoming people.
I say they are arrogant , difficult to work with, and that you cannot trust people who eat half diagonally sliced loafs of bread and drink their strange milk.

This is all bs from me obviously

However I didn’t like their vote this week for 2 reasons
- I don’t like far right
- I think the reasons they voted far right is a fed up with traditional parties.

And the same fed up is felt in Belgium in France and even in Germany.
So we are all threatened of seeing far right taking over everywhere.
Or populists.
Or both.

I don’t like the political situation of today.

[kerouac2]

My main experience with the Dutch was encountering Dutch tourists in Asia. They all seemed to be know-it-alls and not impressed by anything.

[bjd]

I have some very good Dutch friends but they have been living in France for many years. It's not usually a good idea to judge an entire nation on the basis of a few people, especially when they are abroad.

That said, I'm with Whatagain on the current political shift to the right and the far right in so many European countries. People don't seem to think before they vote. Even if they are fed up with politics as it is in their country, so many seem easily swayed by the nonsense spewed by the far right. Nationalism, hatred of immigrants and foreigners in general has never led to a better situation.

It's also interesting that the far right usually has to tone down their nastier side in order to get more votes and to appear more acceptable to a wider public.

[fumobici]

Where I live was settled by a *lot* of Dutch immigrants who are/were extremely conservative. They made dancing illegal in their center town here. A Geert Wilders-led NL thus makes perfect sense to me.

[fumobici]

Nov 24, 2023 15:56:42 GMT bjd said:

I have some very good Dutch friends but they have been living in France for many years. It's not usually a good idea to judge an entire nation on the basis of a few people, especially when they are abroad.

That said, I'm with Whatagain on the current political shift to the right and the far right in so many European countries. People don't seem to think before they vote. Even if they are fed up with politics as it is in their country, so many seem easily swayed by the nonsense spewed by the far right. Nationalism, hatred of immigrants and foreigners in general has never led to a better situation.

It's also interesting that the far right usually has to tone down their nastier side in order to get more votes and to appear more acceptable to a wider public.

I think it's largely driven by immigration policies, the rest is just drug in behind those. It's hard for ordinary, undegreed workers to compete with new immigrants whose expectations for pay and working conditions are imported from the Third World. Undegreed workers are harmed and deleveraged by that. Business interests will always want unlimited immigration, if your government policy is to the highest bidder (as is the neoliberal norm), there will be no non-mainstream alternatives to open door. This obviously greatly enables and empowers non-mainstream populist parties. So they inevitably will eventually thrive under neoliberalism, nothing strange, mysterious, or remotely unexpected to be seen in that happening. It's essentially a normal symptom of money corrupting democracy.

[bjd]

I think your explanation is a bit simplistic, Fumo. It's easy to blame capitalism/neoliberalism for everything but it's not just "ordinary undegreed workers" who support the far right. They are/were also the backbone of unions and the labour movement. And there are well-off and just ordinary middle-class people who are easily convinced by far right rhetoric, particularly when the nastiest bits are toned down. See Marine LePen in France and her successful shift into the political mainstream after she got rid of her father's anti-semitism and other radical statements. And according to the papers, Wilders in the Netherlands also toned down his most anti-Islamic stuff and got votes.

[kerouac2]

While the leaders of these parties are usualy slick and educated, quite a few of their followers are also slick and educated, not just the lower easily influenced masses. But the Malfoys are out there and very active.