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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2009 17:07:29 GMT
I certainly would not want people to feel censored here. As the site grows, many controversial opinions are likely to be expressed. I do not want to see a list of taboo subjects or some of the grotesque posting rules that I have seen on other sanitized sites.
If people want to make negative remarks about the French, any religion, fashion, behavior, politics, obesity or whatever, it does generally not bother me as long as it does not descend into personal insults. There is too little freedom of expression in the world already, and I don't think we need to add to the restrictions.
Yes, certain posts will be deleted or moved into Flotsam, but that's part of life, too.
But I don't want people to start shutting up because they are afraid that they may say something that could upset people they don't even know.
Moderators exist to keep the peace as best they can, not to put muzzles on the members.
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Post by tillystar on May 25, 2009 17:26:57 GMT
Can I just say that I was not the least bit offended about the comments about England, I know a lot of it goes on and it is an unpleasant side of this country. People can say what they like about this country, it really doesnt offend me persoanlly at all. If anything saddens me from this discussion it is that Deyana had such a horrid time here, it sounds like she had an awful time.
I picked up on one comment as lazy thinking in terms of stereotypes and generalisations does offend me, no matter who or what race/country/sex/blah blah blah it is about. Maybe I laboured the point a bit as I was failing miserably to make myself understood.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2009 17:33:12 GMT
Not to worry, tilly. Misunderstandings are rife everywhere.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2009 17:44:00 GMT
It only got personal when Tilly mentioned my kids, and after she told me what that I should correct them, for metnioning the rubbish on the ground in England. No Tilly that ain't gonna happen. And I feel that my comments were falling on deaf ears.
just because you are unable to understand a simple point you imply I have issues with people of colour
Maybe I laboured the point a bit as I was failing miserably to make myself understood. I understood you just fine Tilly, but I didn't agree with you, and that is what so offended you. And not, as you are implying, that I was too dumb to understand. I'm not going to lower myself to insult you as you seem to like doing.
Unless there are going to be any more constructive comments on this thread, I'm finished on here. I don't want to start insulting people, because I can see that's what this is going to become.
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Post by bixaorellana on May 25, 2009 18:18:04 GMT
Deyana, you are not being criticized, nor is anyone else on this thread.
I do think you misinterpreted Tilly's comment about trying to explain to children about stereotypes -- I really read it a different way. And I do understand your sentiments, since I feel quite criticized at the moment.
My point, and I'm sorry if anyone saw it as trying to muzzle comments, was that there are things that hit so close to home that they are bound to inflame emotions. Anything that makes us feel protective of our backgrounds or the way we were raised would come under that heading.
I maintain my stance that there is no reason to say things sure to offend others.
And Gyro's initial objection in Reply #1 was legitimate. As I said, I have no particular, solid concept of England or the English, but that type of journalism is designed to put a certain perception in the readers' minds, not in the service of advancing knowledge, but only to sell papers through sensationalism.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2009 18:33:06 GMT
Bixa, my son was five years old when he made the comment about the rubbish on the ground, there really wasn't anything to correct him for, he was just observing something and making a comment on it. My gripe is that Tilly picked up that one line (from all the comments made on this thread by different people), and tried to turn it into a racist thing, and then went on to mention stuff about aggressive Indians. I did feel that I was being picked on in particular. And then I wondered why and it seemed she was angry that I should dare make such a comment, especially as I am Indian. I asked her about her opinion on the OP's statement and didn't get a reply, all her comments were about me, my kids and racism.
My comments in my first post on this thread were of what I observed first hand in my two years in England, they were not second hand experiences or anything like that. I thought it was O.K. to mention them as this thread is about Britain and I felt I had something to say from my experience of living there.
And, to be honest, (dare I be)? Yes, I guess I will, the papers weren't far wrong, there were murders, attacks, binging etc happening in the area that I was living in and in the towns surrounding it. I'm sure that there are places in Britain that are very different, at least I hope there are, but I was only commenting on what I personally saw, which is all I can do. Now I'm wondering if I shouldn't just shut up about certain things from now on, so not to offend some people?
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2009 19:12:05 GMT
Also, I want to add of the other experiences I had of Britain while I was there and while I was growing up.
Some of the nicest people I have ever met were the ones I met in England. Some of the kindest, most generous and thoughtful were also from England. The kids that I grew up with in Britain are still friends to this day, every time I go back there we meet up and have a laugh, like only those who have known each other all their lives can do.
I grew up in one town and I can walk down the High Street and at least 20 people will know me and we will stop and chat and catch up on our lives. I know the ally ways, the cracks in the pavement, every turn and space has a memory. The rolling countryside is beautiful to see, everything is so accessible. Some of my family still live there. And that is why it saddens me to see how bad some of the areas have gotten. Hopefully with time, things will change for the better...
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Post by gyro on May 25, 2009 19:17:57 GMT
Shame. That it took until post 66 for you to sound balanced.
Look, as surprising as you may think it is, I don't want to argue with you D; I just didn't agree with one point you made, and it didn't seem at any stage that you understood that. I'll be fucked if I'm going to labour it any longer, and I'm sure your opinion of my won't rise, but c'est la vie.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2009 19:27:16 GMT
Yes, I think that this issue has now been fully discussed.
However, I already had decided that Deyana was balanced, perhaps because I am not British.
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Post by gyro on May 25, 2009 19:32:43 GMT
Funny that....
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2009 19:33:55 GMT
Yes, I think that this issue has now been fully discussed. However, I already had decided that Deyana was balanced, perhaps because I am not British.
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Post by gyro on May 25, 2009 19:36:17 GMT
Nothing like an impartial mod ......
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2009 19:45:14 GMT
I think you're balanced, too, Gyro. You do like to put on a little show from time to time. (Who doesn't?)
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Post by gyro on May 25, 2009 19:49:32 GMT
Swooon !. It's AMAAAAZING that you know me better than I know myself, isn't it ?
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Post by tillystar on May 25, 2009 20:23:25 GMT
FFS, you really definately did miss my point and I have no idea what I said to make you think that your opinion ofends me because you are Indian. I am sorry you felt I offended your kids, I can see how that can be upsetting but please don't imply I have issues with you being Indian as an easy way out. I tried to leave this thread with no hard feelings and have to come back to see you have written that?
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2009 20:29:18 GMT
Is the moon full tonight?
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2009 21:19:46 GMT
Yes, very full Yeah Ms. Tilly, whatever you say girl.
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Post by bixaorellana on May 25, 2009 21:44:18 GMT
Wow, Deyana ~~ I REALLY don't want you to think I'm taking Tilly's "side" against yours, but I think if you go back & re-read what she wrote, it was about correcting stereotypes in children's minds in general.
I have noticed that many people from Britain say "racist" when they're referring to comments made against a country. I'm pretty sure that people from the US or Canada only say "racist" when they mean negative attitudes against a race, as in color. So, even though I would not have used her phraseology, I understood what she meant by it.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2009 22:36:50 GMT
hmmm...Yes, when you say it like that it makes sense Bixa. Perhaps there was a mix-up in the understanding of the word 'racist'.
Anyway, I've said all I wanted to say, and I have no hard feelings towards Tilly.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2009 22:41:30 GMT
Now both of you lick your fur and curl up and purr!
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2009 22:43:49 GMT
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Post by gyro on May 26, 2009 7:00:36 GMT
" I'm pretty sure that people from the US or Canada only say "racist" when they mean negative attitudes against a race, as in color "
Haha, and the 'objectivity' continues .......
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