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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2009 19:14:56 GMT
They are totally reputable now in France for those who are not wine snobs. They can be poured into elegant crystal carafes for serving, and a number of them are of excellent quality. However, whenever I punch through the perforated cardboard circle on the box and go fishing around for the spout, I feel that I am doing something unpleasantly sexual (at least for straight men). |
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Post by gyro on Jun 2, 2009 19:17:38 GMT
So, is all the snobbery simply down to the fact that they are in a bag/box combo, rather than a bottle, or is it that predominately, the quality/'persona' of a box wine has been one of a lower standard ?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2009 19:26:06 GMT
Some people need the ceremony of pulling the cork out of the bottle. I can see the point of it for really expensive wines, but hell, most of the totally acceptable wines that are drunk with 'normal' meals are actually of higher quality in those vacuum bags -- there is never any cork rot, excess light exposure or oxidization of unused quantities.
That is actually the best part of box wines -- the fact that you can keep the box for a month or more without the wine deteriorating, while a bottle of wine must be finished in a few days at most.
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Post by BigIain on Jun 2, 2009 20:59:20 GMT
Some people need an expensive or popular label. I just have never enjoyed a box. In the UK they are not so good as they may be in paris. I agree that most house red in France is from the box.
I must do some more research on this topic.
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Post by bixaorellana on Jun 2, 2009 21:14:19 GMT
It's not snobbery that would make me leery about box wines, but the fact that the only ones I've tried were beyond vile. However, that was back in the 70s, and & can see by the photo that very respectable companies are making them now.
Still, there is something about the polyethylene bag inside ...........
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2009 21:30:59 GMT
Sometimes the bag is mylar.
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Post by BigIain on Jun 2, 2009 21:43:53 GMT
Could it be that Kerouac enjoys even lower quality wine than I do?? Surely not? I thought I was the king of vin ordinaire?
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Post by bixaorellana on Jun 2, 2009 21:44:32 GMT
Yeah. I guess there are so many excess of these that they had to find another use for them.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2009 21:48:57 GMT
There are some very high class wines now being sold in boxes, as the producers have begun to do a reality check. The first shock for them was to discover that screw top bottles conserve good wine better than corks. But since corks are such a traditional necessity, it is out of the question to sell fine wines that way. So one way out of the dilemma is to sell fine wines in boxes, where the 3 liter or 5 liter (and sometimes 10 liter) containers allow them to say that people are saving lots of money by not having the individual corked bottles but are not sacrificing quality, and they can put the wine in fine decanters, which is what wine snobs like to do anyway.
A taste test will convince anyone. You can believe me on this one.
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Post by BigIain on Jun 2, 2009 21:55:38 GMT
I will research and get back to you. The picture at the head of the thread includes Australian wine. I hope that you do not refer to this?
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Post by lagatta on Jun 2, 2009 22:46:41 GMT
I have indeed had good box wine in France. In Italy, I've actually had decent wines in tetrapaks (though there are many ghastly ones too; the good one I had was from the COOP supermarket chain).
Here due to taxation they are not a bargain; I can do better buying four or five bottles of wine than buying a tetrapak. They used to be a better deal but no more.
A great many decent wines now have screwtops, which I find far more practical than trying to get the cork back in the bottle and putting it back in the fridge.
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Post by bixaorellana on Jun 3, 2009 1:49:12 GMT
Iain, why don't you think Australian wine would be good?!
I've only had Gallo wine from a tetrapak. It tastes bad & gives you a headache before you finish the glass.
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Post by gyro on Jun 3, 2009 4:52:26 GMT
I'm not knowledgeable on wine, but I only EVER drink my ale from a Yak's hoof. Any other way is ridiculous and very low class.
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Post by happytraveller on Jun 3, 2009 6:10:19 GMT
We've just finished a box the other day and we'll buy the same again, it was not top class obviously but it was a very pleasant french wine, actually it was surprisingly pleasant and it didn't cost us an arm and a leg. And there's a lot less to recycle afterwards.
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Post by gyro on Jun 3, 2009 6:38:27 GMT
I prefer those plastic 'petrol can' style containers with a built in handle and screw top you can get in French supermarkets for about £2 for 2 litres. Quality. And more miles to the gallon than unleaded.
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Post by BigIain on Jun 3, 2009 9:12:44 GMT
Ah, Gyro... nothing quite compares to vrac wine, poured in to your own container direct from the manufacturer! Fond memories.
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Post by gyro on Jun 3, 2009 9:50:59 GMT
Not done that, but I know that, last time I was in Brittany, I brought back a few plastic tubs that cost about 15 Francs each at the time. The most I paid for a BOTTLE of wine - a muscadet I think - was almost £2. That was REALLY expensive ... !
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Post by bjd on Jun 3, 2009 12:33:30 GMT
Interesting to see this today as I have been wondering about box wines. We are organizing a wedding this summer and on Monday I went to see a local producer to get some samples. He offered to sell me boxed wine -- it would be the stuff he produces himself. I was wondering whether it didn't look too low class for a wedding? It's not going to be a formal thing, but in a small village in the country and more party than wedding.
There will obviously be fewer bottles to recycle. Any other good points?
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Post by BigIain on Jun 3, 2009 12:42:29 GMT
Possibly see what wines the Co-Op has if there is one in your area? If the stuff in the box is also the stuff you have sampled then you will be fine.
I would definately sample before buying if I were in your shoes.
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Post by bjd on Jun 3, 2009 14:59:07 GMT
It's not a co-op, he's the producer. I bought some to sample but haven't done so yet.
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Post by bixaorellana on Jun 3, 2009 15:12:22 GMT
*makes note to check Bjd for erratic behavior*
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2009 17:50:04 GMT
When we had the café... well you know those nice wooden kegs that are placed on the bar to celebrate the Beaujolais Nouveau in November? There is a box of Beaujolais Nouveau inside of those kegs.
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Post by gyro on Jun 3, 2009 19:31:46 GMT
Fuck me, no wonder wine drinkers are so often regarded as snobs !
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2009 19:53:04 GMT
I would have to say that while I do not like wine snobs, I have on occasion tasted ultra expensive wines that clearly soared far off the chart in terms of exceptional taste. I would never pay for such a thing, of course. However, I have never tasted a beer that had the same effect, as much as I like beer (which I already said I tend to prefer to wine in many cases).
I therefore understand the "wine snobs" even though I would never want to be a member of their club.
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Post by gyro on Jun 3, 2009 19:57:30 GMT
I didn't realise I was pitching a beer vs wine argument .....
Snobbery is stupid, conceited and pathetic regardless of what it concerns. There is no 'understanding' necessary, seeing as how it's all basically a 'Mines Better Than Yours' type attitude.
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Post by lagatta on Jun 3, 2009 21:44:19 GMT
gyro, as someone who has studied such très peu rentable fields as fine arts, Italian literature and social history, I can't quite agree. Sure, I know knowledge of any art is not usually as important as engineering (though architecture shares both features, as the architect can also be behind a faulty and dangerous structure) but it annoys me to no end when people who have no knowledge of something I have a master's degree in says it is "only a matter of taste".
That said, if it is a producer's own good wine, and not an anonymous blend, boxed stuff is fine for a wedding, either in those wooden box holders or, better, caraffed.
By the way, although I'm not much of a beer drinker, I have sipped special reserve beers (of the Belgian school) which were as complex as any wine I've tasted.
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Post by gyro on Jun 4, 2009 4:33:29 GMT
" it annoys me to no end when people who have no knowledge of something I have a master's degree in says it is "only a matter of taste". "
Yeah, but that's ignorance on their part, not snobbery from you, isn't it ?
If YOU were looking down on somebody just because they don't know your subject, or because they know it but don't like it, then THAT would be snobbery. That's what I'm talking about.
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Post by gyro on Jun 4, 2009 4:36:20 GMT
btw, because there does seem to be some sort of misconception going on, I don't have 'problem' with wine. Far from it. I don't normally spend a large amount on it as there's no point when I can get one that tastes pretty decent to me for around or under £5 a bottle.
It's like rugby and football. I like rugby (although profess not to have a huuuuge knowledge of the game), but prefer football. I don't, however, go around saying rugby is shit. Same thing as wine and beer .....
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Post by bjd on Jun 4, 2009 11:25:49 GMT
I didn't realize I would come over as a wine snob to Gyro just because I thought bottles would look better than boxes. If it makes you feel better, the wine costs 4€20 a bottle, and he'll give me a 15% reduction.
It just seems to me that for an occasion when many people will get together for a celebration at a nice old house in the countryside and dress up compared to their usual outfit, that the reception should also look a bit fancy.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2009 11:57:26 GMT
bjd,I see no need for you to defend what comes across to me as simply good taste.Presentation is not snobbery in my estimation.
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