|
Post by bixaorellana on Oct 29, 2011 16:42:28 GMT
Thanks for the grim update and also thanks for pointing us here from the discussion in the screening room board about the movie "Welcome".
Even though nothing has changed, are there at least government studies going on to try to address the situation, or is all still nothing more than round 'em up and move 'em out?
|
|
|
Post by rikita on Nov 6, 2011 15:53:29 GMT
just found this thread... i will see if i can find the two movies found here...
one thing i am thinking is - making it hard to "get in", like building fences or checking in busses if someone is breathing i nthere (like mentioned in one of the articles above) will not stop people from trying, it will just make more people die while trying... the only way would be if living conditions would be good enough everywhere so people won't want to leave...
and living your home in search of a better life is not really something new, it has existed all over history...
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2011 17:05:15 GMT
People will never stop trying... and they shouldn't. I will not deny that rules are needed, but in some cases there is no alternative than to break the rules.
|
|
|
Post by bixaorellana on Nov 6, 2011 17:36:21 GMT
Just nudging you, Kerouac, to see if you'd seen my question at #30. I was fascinated to just reread this thread. Absolutely nothing has changed since two years ago. Damn it! Is this currently a hot issue for the public, as in fierce debates and beliefs about "them"?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2011 17:46:45 GMT
Well, the "them" keeps changing, in terms of what people talk about. Recent new influxes have been from Tunisia, Libya and Egypt, surprise surprise. Probably some of them were rich people with packets of money and close ties to the former regimes, but they are a small minority. The main groups are people who lost their livelihoods in the events of the Arab Spring and don't see things ever getting back to normal.
You can debate with them until you are blue in the face about how now is that time that they should be back rebuilding their countries into something new and good, but many of them feel that it is all hopeless and that the only acceptable future is "elsewhere." And of course, they have more expertise regarding their countries than we do.
|
|
|
Post by rikita on Nov 6, 2011 18:32:13 GMT
i suppose the difficult thing is that it is easy to tell others they should go back rebuild their country - if it isn't oneself who might risk the future of one's children and even one's life in the process... i am not sure what i'd do in such a situation... i might prefer trying to build a better life elsewhere...
|
|
|
Post by denise on Nov 6, 2011 21:42:27 GMT
:)Just read this thread. I remember the original report about the refugees camping near canal St Martin. Fascinating to read the discussion that followed.
I do not know any answers and have mixed opinions. I know it is now huge problem in Europe, which seems to shock people from other continents when they come here.
In England I work with asylum seekers, and refugees, legal and illegal, as a health professional, every day. It is not my job to judge, just to give care. There are others who are not so liberal and will report them to the authorities if they find they are illegal.
Believe me they are mistaken in their belief that England is the promised land although it is often better than what they have left behind.
If they manage get to England, are not turned back at the border are allowed to seek asylum and can stay whist their application is being processed, they are given housing and a very minimal amount of benefit plus a mobile phone so the home office can keep track of them.
They are not allowed to work and are moved about frequently so as not to form relationships. I think this is to prevent security risks. It is not unknown for The home office to move a pregnant woman (who is more vulnerable than most) in the eighth month of pregnancy. Away from the father of the baby, health professionals who know her history and any social support she has formed.
Often they will have babies, one because they have escaped from wherever and it is instinctive to reproduce in that circumstance and two because they have a mistaken belief that this will help them to stay. The home office takes no prisoners with applications and seems to have no compassion. Family's are split up and people sent back.
In these circumstances it is understandable why some of them do not declare themselves and remain as illegal immigrants and just disappear off the radar, often working in a shady world of exploitative illegal jobs or for women in prostitution.
Of course, during their experiences and journey these people learn skills to survive by any means and only the people who can themselves exploit opportunities tend to survive. This often makes them seem sneaky, secretive, untrustworthy and out to get whatever they can. Who can say given the same circumstances how we would behave and what WE would do to survive.
I feel it is the people traffickers who are the real baddies here. Organised gangs for whom human life is just a commodity. I wish more would be done to hunt out these people and bring them to justice, people who exploit desperate, vulnerable people who just have dreams of a better life as we all do.
After all what desperation would make US leave the people we love and our lives, to make treacherous journey halfway across the world.
I feel desperately sorry for these refugees, whatever they are running away from, whether it be war, starvation poverty, persecution or what.
It must be said that some are running away from prosecution and are criminals, and unfortunately the law of the jungle often exists amongst the communities.
As I said I don't know the answer, for the moment I just give the care they need and take each one as an individual.
Denise
|
|
|
Post by bixaorellana on Nov 7, 2011 15:57:32 GMT
Denise, this is a remarkable and compassionate insight into the circumstances of people living an underground existence. What I found most eye-opening is how those working within the system in seeking asylum are treated. Reading about their receiving free housing, some financial aid and even a phone makes their treatment seem so benevolent, whereas in your next paragraph you give the flip side of cold, arbitrary bureaucracy.
I'm from the US and lived on the Mexican border in an area so culturally Hispanic that undocumented people from Mexico could more or less hide in plain sight. Of course I'm familiar with all the reasoned or hysterical arguments in the US about "illegal aliens", including the common cry that "they" need to speak English and to fit in. While living on the border, I volunteered at a food bank. One thing we were supposed to do was to make sure that foreign recipients had their immigration paperwork in order, something impossible for many of them. The reality that quickly became obvious was how difficult it is for those unable to reap full advantage of their own culture because of the isolation of poverty and lack of schooling to assimilate into the completely different language and culture of the new country.
When I moved to Mexico, I quickly learned why the US is such a mecca, as I was repeatedly asked, "Is it true that you can earn 50 pesos an hour over there?", by people eager to work and unaware of how mean that salary would be in the States. Well, not to ramble on, but that's just a bit of anecdotal evidence of how rumor and lack of real information can create a beacon of false hope. And of course the refugees of whom you speak are fleeing much more than straightened economic circumstances.
Thanks for your valuable insights as to what it's like on the other side of the Channel for those hoping to get there from France.
|
|