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Post by bjd on Mar 11, 2010 14:27:18 GMT
I spent half an hour with EDF (the electricity company) this morning. First listening to music for 7 minutes, then dead silence for about the same time, after being told not to hang up. I called a second time, and after another round of music, I learned that the letter I had sent in December cancelling monthly debits on the account (set up by our son's girlfriend when she used the apartment) was only dealt with in January, by which time the February debit request had gone through. I learned about it when I got my bank statement the other day. So now, they owe me 120€, which they admit on the bill I received last month, but I won't get it back until the meters are read "officially" in mid-May.
EDF/GDF are a total screw-up since they separated the meter-reading/payment collection service to one company.
Baz, since when does city hall deal with your private meter readings?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2010 15:51:51 GMT
CPam, the medical bureaucracy, were so inefficient when we moved house they did't register us until 1 November in the Lot. So far as CPAM in the Herault are concerned we left on 22 September. Nobody will pay the bills we ran up during those weeks. Since this includes a hospital visit we are jilted of several hundred euros. And yet it is all the French health service. You're not going to let them get away with that, I hope.
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Post by bazfaz on Mar 11, 2010 16:19:56 GMT
Mrs Faz telephoned CPAM in Herault yesterday and spoke to one of the rude bureaucrats in which this country is a world leader (after Russia). He interrupted her when she was trying to explain. When she was given a chance to explain the result was silence at the other end. Hello? Are you there? Yes, was the reply, it is not our concern because we no longer have your file. He offered no help as to how we should go about getting repayment.
Britain is far from perfect but its public servants by and large believe they are there to serve the public. We have European Health Cards for use when we travel to another member country. The regime changes this year and they will now be issued by the country of your citizenship not where you live. We received notice of this from the UK but the letter did not make clear whether our existing French-issued cards would continue to be valid until they expire in December. We emailed them and after 3 days we got a reply saying we would need new cards issued by the UK from 1st May. The letter assured us that the new cards would be issued in time for Mrs Faz's visit to Britain in May. But if by any chance the cards had not arrived before Mrs Faz visited Britain then here was a telephone number for her to ring if she needed medical attention. I think the letter was quick in coming, polite and helpful.
BJD the water situation in our previous village changed during the past year. Previously water had been supplied by the commune and was unmetered - yes, as much as we wanted for 35 euros a year. However some Paris ministry said this was illegal and we had to be metered. The annual meter charge was 55 euros and each cubic metre 85 centimes. But the mairie still had some authority over the water supply and it was the mayor who said we should read the meter on our last day and put the reading in the mairie's post box.
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Post by gertie on Mar 12, 2010 7:15:52 GMT
I would call again, it has been my experience if you ask enough people eventually someone will, reluctantly, help in many cases. It is probably just a matter of wearing them down.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2010 11:46:01 GMT
I never call and I always write. When they have to write back they actually have to check things, which is something that they generally do not do when they are babbling on the phone.
And when I get a really ignorant or disinterested reply, I take it up to the next level. When I was trying to get my mother into a nursing home, this took about 8 levels and ended up on the desk of the mayor of Paris -- who unblocked the situation within 24 hours.
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Post by bjd on Mar 12, 2010 12:25:27 GMT
I never call and I always write. When they have to write back they actually have to check things, which is something that they generally do not do when they are babbling on the phone. I tried that with those flunkeys at Erdf/Grdf. They sent my letter back with a form saying they couldn't do anything. I have had more luck phoning, once you get past the voice mail and music. Occasionally you do get someone helpful.
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Post by bixaorellana on Mar 19, 2010 16:24:46 GMT
I've mostly avoided this thread, as I could be quite ugly on the subject of Mexican bureaucracy.
My most recent electric bill was more than double the usual. Yesterday I went and discussed it at the electric company, where, with great politeness and without really saying anything, it was made quite clear that they profoundly do not care. And for a little extra insult, the bimbette helping me shorted me two pesos on my change. (I had to pay, as they cut off services here if you're even one day late.)
Advice I've received: go to the office in Oaxaca instead; go to the Prefecture and put in a complaint. WHY must it be so complicated and time-consuming.?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2010 20:40:54 GMT
Oh, that's one of the first things I learned when I moved to France. There is even a French expression that says "Talk directly to god and not to his saints."
I have learned the total relevance of this saying over the years.
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Post by hwinpp on Mar 20, 2010 3:59:17 GMT
For nearly 4 years I've been trying to get a driving license in Cambodia. I have a German driving license but it's currently, umm, unavailable...
So I couldn't prove to the authorities that I knew how to drive. The solution has been that I drive without a license and give the police a little tip when they stop me. It's not much, 10k riel, about 2.50USD does the job.
On Thursday a friend of mine was in town and asked me to take him to a driving school to pick up his new Cambodian license. I took the opportunity and told the owner of my predicament and asked what he would recommend. I got a surprise! He said I should take 5 driving lessons and 5 theory lessons, 62USD, then take the written test in English, 11USD then the driving test, 15USD. That made me very happy ;D
I was expecting a real runaround with multiple bribes and visits to all kinds of offices.
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Post by gertie on Mar 20, 2010 4:50:40 GMT
If you want fun and games with bureaucracy, get a possum stuck in your house. And yeah I know now you want the story. We were working on renovating our house, had pulled ups some floor boards to more easily work on some things under the house during the day but had put them back down in the evening and placed some weights upon them. Apparently not enough weight. Just as we were dozing off to sleep, a bit of noise was heard downstairs. It was Friday night after a long week of working on the house and we were exhausted. Hubs is six foot five around 300 pounds and able to lift me at that time weighing 140 pounds like I am nothing. I figured he can handle it and feigned sleep. Husband comes back from downstairs shortly demanding "I need a crow bar and a flashlight". I feign harder. Husband locates them (right where they belong I might add) and swishes back downstairs, whereupon I hear swearing, banging, a whole lot of "Will you just go outside". I really did not want to find out by that point and just stayed happily behind my closed door. Eventually hubs came to bed with the comment "Well, I couldn't get it out, but don't worry, it's trapped". Well, hubs is good at taking care of me, so I went to sleep. By morning, the incident was really not on my mind, so when I rounded the corner into the one room with furniture and was hit by a stench, you can imagine my shocked shout. Hubs appeared at that moment at the top of the stairs and said calmly "It's the possum, I told you I'd trapped it". Hmmmm Yes, indeed, he'd trapped it under a chest pushed in a corner. Apparently it had run around a bit and eventually hid out under there, refusing to budge and hissing, so tired hubby had penned it in with a couple of pieces of wood and some chairs with tools stacked on them for weight. We removed one of these and Mr Possum just sat underneath hissing at us. Now in case you are keeping track, it was now Saturday. I got no answer at Animal Control, so called the cops who told me I'd have to wait until Monday as Animal Control is only on duty every other Saturday. Me: But my kids are coming home Sunday, and I"ll have children here, can't I come and borrow the Animal Control guy's pole with the noose? No, an Officer would have to come and use it do to insurance. Ok, can we get an officer to come and use it? Maybe later, they're all busy. Ok, so you'll put us on a waiting list for when they get a chance? Uhhh, sure...someone will call....I don't know when though as we are always busy. Well, hubs and I decided to have some breakfast while waiting. On the way to pick it up, I drove past two police cars. One was parked at a local hangout probably for breakfast, the other was sitting in a parking lot watching for speeders. I called hubs and got him to call about the possum, with somewhat similar results, although she did comment I had called. Hubs told her he did not realize as I was out in the car getting breakfast. Throughout the day, we continued to take turns calling, pretending not to know the other person had called. During the evening, hubs took a length of pipe and a nylon cord and tried to create his own noose thing. We spent a couple of enjoyable hours trying to snag Mr Possum, who steadfastly refused to be lasso'd by the limp cord we were trying to use. After a few more phone calls, we went to bed. Sunday we started early with the calls. Finally, about 3 or 4 pm, a very young, obvious rookie showed up with the noose pole. From conversation he had just come on duty. We think they held this job over for him as some sort of initiation right perhaps. While he was trying to consider how to get hold of the thing without a nasty meeting with Mr Possum's sharp little teeth, three more officers showed up. Their helpful advice was to "Just reach in there and grab him". By the time he dragged the thing out, still hissing and struggling wildly, two more cops had show up, which in our small town had to be pretty much the entire force on duty, if not the entire force. Yep. Had five police cars parked in front of the house, too, and some of our new neighbors were beginning to mill about curiously. The young cop stood on the front lawn, struggling possum more or less dangling from the pole, and with a rather desperate look asked what he should do with the thing, seeing as letting it go would just mean it would crawl back under the house and make another run for the shelter of our house. Clown cop suggested he just lock it in the back of his car and drive it out by the dump. Eventually we stuck it in our cat carrier and hauled it in the back of the truck out to the woods by the dump. You have not lived until you have seen a six foot five 300 pound man doing a standing broad jump of 10 feet into the bed of a Ford Ranger pickup screaming like a girl, which is what my husband did after he opened the door of the cat crate. Mr Possum was completely unimpressed, in fact my dear hubs had to shake the thing out of the crate onto the ground, a feat that required a huge amount of effort. Mr Possum hit the ground, gave us a talk-to-the-tail salute, and sauntered off into the woods, head held high as if sniffing his nose at our audacity. Now you think this is it but wait...more fun. We got a letter from the county a month later regarding our unauthorized relocation of wild life, informing us there was a fine which could be levied if we did not cease and desist this activity. Lucky for us that was the last of our possum relocation program. Just in case you think I exaggerate, here's a pic hubs snapped as Mr Possum was being unceremoniously dragged from his hiding place. On the positive side, we got to meet most of the neighborhood and everyone had a good laugh.
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Post by bixaorellana on Mar 20, 2010 5:06:32 GMT
Oh -- that's so funny! And the picture is funnier than a cartoon. That expression, and the way it's got its claws dug into the floor -- oh my gosh!
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Post by hwinpp on Mar 20, 2010 5:14:54 GMT
That sounded fun... and not really that bad, gertie. You can't imagine what'll happen to you if you bury your recently deceased pet in your back garden and some stupid neighbour reports it to the police... in Germany...
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Post by gertie on Mar 20, 2010 15:53:02 GMT
Well, the telling of it isn't that bad. At the time...with him stinking up the house...that brownish stuff you see on the floor and smeared on the dresser is his slime. It took buckets and buckets of lemon lysol to get that stench out. I made hubby throw away the lumber he trapped it in with. But I have to say we really laugh about it now. ;D
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Post by Don Cuevas on Mar 20, 2010 17:24:06 GMT
i cant find the energy to tell about our hassles with the patzcuaro branch bank. nothing ever gets done. but one of the morelia branches seems to be able to fulfill our needs within an hour. why is that?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2010 12:00:17 GMT
Back when we had possums around the house, they still knew how to play dead when threatened. This new young breed of possums shows no respect for tradition.
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Post by bazfaz on Apr 2, 2010 9:31:23 GMT
Today we received our cartes de sejour. In theory we don't need these cards any more but since we need to carry proof of identity with us at all times (nudist beach?) it seems sensible to get them.
It has taken five months to make the change from the cards in the Herault to the cards in the Lot. Five months.
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Post by bazfaz on Apr 26, 2010 15:03:45 GMT
We got back from our visit to Spain on Friday evening to find our computers couldn't ho on line. The problem was with the Live Box. Mrs Faz rang France Telecome from whom we got the Live Box and the man asked what make of Live Box it was. Mrs Faz said she didn't know and he told her to look on the back of the Live Box. There she saw the manufacturer was Thomson. 'That is not possible,' the France Telecom man said. But that is what the label on the Live Box says, she insisted. 'No.' the France Telecom man said - and put the phone down on her.
I won't go into the continuing trouble we have with the medical bureaucracy or the banking bureaucracy.
French bureaucrats are going to drive us out of this country.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2010 16:43:56 GMT
Well, Thomson doesn't exist anymore now that it has taken the name of one of its subsidiaries -- Technicolor. Maybe the pixies were supposed to come in the night to change the label. My Livebox is an Inventel.
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Post by bazfaz on Apr 26, 2010 20:19:33 GMT
I have the Live Box in front of me. It says Thomson on the back. If the France Telecom man doesn't know that a Live Box supplied by them 7 months ago says Thomson (whether it exists now is irrelevant) he should not have his job. And his arrogance in cutting the connection while Mrs Faz was trying to talk to him is inexcusable.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2010 20:38:08 GMT
That is the absolute horror of all of the outsourcing that has been done everywhere -- the people you talk to are not really connected to the company that you are talking about. And they talk like robots. They have a role to play, and you can't skip any steps like saying "yes, it is plugged in" before they ask you "have you checked that it is plugged in?"
(My company started outsourcing everything this month -- to India -- and we have totally lost control and comprehension of EVERYTHING.)
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Post by Kimby on May 23, 2010 2:10:40 GMT
Here's my bureaucracy gripe:
Our neighborhood is in bear country and bears tend to get into garbage (and other food items including bird feeders, dog food, BBQ grills, etc.). Our neighborhood group applied for a Living With Wildlife grant from the state Fish Wildlife and Parks Department, and were given almost $5000 to purchase bear-resistant trash containers to give to neighborhood residents on long term loan. This was done with the full participation of the local trash collection company, who sold us the containers at a discounted price of only $195 USD each.
Not 6 months after distributing the containers, the corporate office of the waste disposal company (based somewhere they don't have bears, no doubt!) makes a decision to change OUR neighborhood and one other in our city to an automated service. This allows them to eliminate one job, as the driver of the truck operates an arm that picks up and dumps the can, so he doesn't need an assistant to tip the cans into the truck. This is a cost savings for them, even though they had to provide everyone with a garbage can the arm can lift.
Why did they pick our neighborhood in bear country to be one of only two in the whole area for automated routes? Because the more urban neighborhoods have overhead powerlines and curbside parking which interfere with the use of the automated arm to dump the cans.
They gave everyone on our route a new trash container that is identical in shape to the bear-resistant containers, but is not bear-resistant. And the bear-resistant containers cannot be used anymore, unless the bear-proof latch is left unlatched, thus defeating their purpose. Now people want to give us back the containers we worked so hard to get placed.
And in addition, the new cans are so HUGE that most people are leaving them outside their garage all week, which makes the bear problem potentially much worse than it ever was before.
AND they raised our rates but reduced the amount of waste we can dispose of per week. (We used to be able to put out five 30-gallon cans per week, plus up to 10 bags of yard waste.) Anything that doesn't fit in the new 95-gallon receptacles, they will pick up, but at an extra charge.
I hate Bureaucracy!
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2010 7:18:21 GMT
I am bracing myself for going to see Orange soon since they now have an offer to combine internet + cable TV + telephone + 3G wireless access, but the thought of "all my eggs in one basket" terrifies me in case of problems, even though consolidating everything with reduce my bill by about 70%. Not only that, disentangling myself from the other providers will very certainly be a nightmare as well.
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Post by Kimby on May 25, 2010 17:40:34 GMT
Yes, they will cling to your euros as hard as they can. Maybe use this as an opportunity to renegotiate the terms with the carriers you already have?
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2010 18:28:37 GMT
That's not too hard, because every provider keeps lowering the price due to the competition. Getting out of the other contracts is often the hard part -- but in many cases it is worth paying 6 months of service you don't want just to get rid of them.
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Post by bazfaz on Jun 24, 2010 20:57:39 GMT
For once I come to praise. Mrs Faz has conducted a nine month campaign to have our medical expenses covered by the state repaid to us. The hiccup occurred when we changed department. Herault said we were no longer covered by them. Lot said we hadn't registered (they lied). Nobody did anything. Mrs Faz went to see the Lot lot who denied it was their responsibility. She telephoned the Herault bunch and a man literally would not speak to her and put the phone down. She sent registered letters which were thrown away.
Finally, she found a woman in Beziers who said it wasn't her responsibility but it was a disgrace that nothing was done to repay us (250 euros). Today the woman telephoned and said that she had arranged it all and repayment wouild be made next Wednesday.
And she wasn't even on strike today.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2010 21:02:37 GMT
One thing I have learned over the years: never give up no matter how many times they say no.
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Post by bjd on Jun 25, 2010 7:55:43 GMT
Baz, send that woman's name in for a promotion.
My daughter recently returned to France after being abroad for a few years. She spent hours going around the various bureaucracies in Paris trying to get a social security card, register for employment (hah!), etc. At one office, she was told she should have phoned instead of coming in. When she replied that she was already there, they sent her to a phone in a corner and told her to call them.
It must be said that at one office, she did come across a helpful woman who gave her all the necessary forms not only for her own files but those for others too, so everything was sorted out at one go. So there are actually a few competent people out there.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2010 20:17:23 GMT
One thing I have learned over the years: never give up no matter how many times they say no. Yes,one has to be relentless in these matters, I think they bank on people getting frustrated and giving up. Good on Madame Bazfaz!!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2010 20:25:52 GMT
I am thrilled to have just started a case with the Better Business Bureau of Savannah, Georgia. I will pursue the pitiful amount for the next 10 years if necessary.
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Post by bixaorellana on Jun 26, 2010 16:02:44 GMT
I didn't know that the BBB could now help people get money back. For years, the only thing they did was compile complaints. A potential client could call the Bureau to ask about a business. All BBB would reveal, though, was that the business had no complaints, or that it had X amount of complaints.
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