Culture and cuisine

[Deleted]

I don't know if you read about it, but Michaelangelo's David has been on loan to the United States in recent months. Naturally, there is always a bit of controversy about no fig leaf and that sort of stuff, but everybody agrees that it is a magnificent work of art.



The statue is now being returned to Italy with many thanks from the sponsors of the event,


McDonald's

KFC

Starbucks

Dunkin' Donuts

Burger King

Pizza Hut

Taco Bell

Popeye's Fried Chicken

Kraft Instant Dinners

Ben & Jerry's

and others too countless to name.

[lagatta]

Ha!

Though such "vitelloni" are more common in Italian immigrant communities across the pond, I have seen some overfed young men in Il Bel paese...

[fumobici]

The only place I've ever been where I've seen anywhere near the number of obese people I see in the US and Canada was in Mexico.

[bixaorellana]

You're kidding?! What part of Mexico?

[fumobici]

Border towns, Nogales and Tijuana.

[hwinpp]

I think Tonga also has a lot of fatsos, also Samoa, both in fact. They eat spam all the time.


Grossly over- generalised, I know

[bixaorellana]

Yeah, sad but true. I lived on the Texas side of the border, near Brownsville. It's a compelling argument for the theory that people should eat like their ancestors. The rate of obesity, heart disease and diabetes was shocking. One of my friends in Texas, who was quite overweight, had a heart attack when he was 40. He said that his was he first generation in that area to consider eating "American" food to be desirable. This meant much nutritionally rich Mexican-style home cooking went by the wayside in favor of hamburgers and pizzas.

There used to be a saying that the further south you went into Mexico, the slimmer the population would be. That was certainly true when I moved here. Fatness was out of the ordinary, even among the middle and upper middle classes. Even now you don't see that huge, waddling obesity that is so common north of the border, but people are getting much plumper, even the kids.

[Deleted]

Dec 11, 2009 6:39:27 GMT hwinpp said:

I think Tonga also has a lot of fatsos, also Samoa, both in fact. They eat spam all the time.


Grossly over- generalised, I know

Yes, I read that Tonga is the fattest country in the world. No vegetables ever, and they don't even care for fish. Pork fat, yes!

[lagatta]

I certainly observe that in the photos you take of ordinary people and crowds, bixa, there are no severely obese people - sure there is a range of body shapes, which is normal. But people also seem to be eating a much more traditional diet than in the border towns or DF (the only parts of Mexico I've been too, and alas not for long).

Most Mexicans are at least part Indigenous Amerindian, and in Oaxaca this seems even more the case than in the places I saw. Many Amerindian peoples have what is called the "thrifty gene" that got people through famines by fat-storing capacity. This also makes the impact of obesity far graver in Amerindian communities.

Bixa, there have also been modifications in Mexican dishes themselves - far too much fatty cheese for one thing. Doubt that is the case where you are, but it certainly can be in northern border towns and even among some of the food offerings in DF. After all, pizza as first conceived in Naples was not smothered in cheese either - poor Neapolitans never could have afforded so much animal protein.

Culture and cuisine is a fertile topic, and I'd hope it wouldn't just be about the question of obesity.

[bixaorellana]

LaGatta, your points about modifications in Mexican food or in pizza -- originally a useful poverty food -- bring up something about how we eat the way we do because we can.

I assume that descendants of immigrants in the US and Canada who celebrate their heritage with the inclusion of family recipes are eating far more elaborately and often than the ancestors who brought those recipes to the new world. Much of that food was either seasonal, or so rich it was only for special occasions.

Although not immigrants to their own country, it wasn't until fairly recently that Mexicans had access to whatever foods they wanted, whenever they wanted.

For much of human history, not only did the getting and preparing of food require an expenditure of energy, life itself did. Less than a hundred years ago a farm family, for instance, had to eat a huge, caloric breakfast so the wife would have strength to run the household, the farmer to perform the myriad of tasks needed, and the kids to do their chores. When the children weren't working, they were outside playing, not staring at a box in a darkened room.

Contrast that with driving to the store to push a cart around in order to pick up butter that you didn't churn from milk that you didn't have to get from the cow -- butter that will be put on food for flavor and texture, not because we need the calories for nutrition.

[lagatta]

Even life for a city family involved a lot more physical work than it does now - doing laundry, heating the water to do dishes and baths, keeping houses heated by coal or wood fires clean, bringing the fuel in, and unless they were wealthy walking to work. Not only industrial labourers but clerks and shop assistants also walked a lot more than most people nowadays unless they are walking for "exercise". There was a BBC "reality show" (more intelligent than usual) depicting life in a lower-middle-class household in late Victorian or Edwardian times.

Your Eastern European and Jewish thread reminds me of friends who don't want to eat Hanukah (many spellings!) latkes because they are fattening. My friend's ancestors in Poland would NOT have had that concern. In climates such as that one, people would also be using up a lot more calories just because of the lack of modern central heating.

As for Naples and its region (Campania), although the average person couldn't afford much meat, they probably did have access to vegetables and if they were lucky, some fish. They didn't just eat pizza.

[traveler63]

The simple fact is that Americans are fat, and really obese. This is a huge topic here and hopefully there will be changes for the better. The schools are taking out the soda machines and junk food machines. It is a start, but there are McDonalds still in some schools. At the University of Arizona here in Tucson, well the student union area has all kinds of fast food places. This is a huge part of the problem. You can't go down any major street without seeing a fast food place. On one I counted 13 in 5 block area. Mr. T63 and I don't do fast food!!!
When we go out to dinner, we usually select from the appetizer menu for a main course, with a salad, etc. The restaurant portions here are huge!!!!!

I used to be a soda freak! I love Pepsi, but I stopped drinking soda because I had read that if you drink it regularly you can put on as much as 10 lbs. You know what, I did lose about 10 lbs. I am 5'1 and I was around 130 lbs, and now I am about 120lbs.

As I said in another post, it is such a culture shock to arrive back in a U. S. airport after being in Europe. I cannot tell you how many times Mr. T63 and I have commented on how obese and sloppy Americans are. It's too bad.

[Deleted]

What Lagatta mentioned about the level of activity in the home is such a critical factor. Americans at least,for the most part ,coddle their children,enable and indulge.This unfortunately,carries over into the next generation and so on.
Expectations and responsibilities at home? We would never have been allowed to sit in front of a television on a weekend morning and watch TV. We were rewarded later for our efforts with some kind of special treat,but everyone took part in the overall running of the household/farm, no matter what day or time of the year.

[bixaorellana]

In all fairness, I don't know if it's so much a matter of fast food temptation, nor of parental coddling.

When I was in college, the eateries near campus served real food for the most part. I don't remember a franchise anywhere around. Students in dorms can't brown-bag, so they eat what's readily available in the time available to them, whether or not that would normally be their choice.

And chores -- what chores are there in the average suburb that would get kids out and moving in the open air on a daily basis? Even a child eager to assume responsibility in the home can at most mow the lawn once a week and keep his room clean.

Times have changed radically in America and eating patterns have been greatly affected. Somewhere Imec mentions how his family endeavors to have regular meals together. In the 1950s, for instance, that would not have been a matter of comment. The dad would go off to work, the kids would play outside after school, and mom would have a nice meal on the table at a designated time.

If you look at Bjd's Bogotá thread, it perfectly illustrates how people's lives in many other parts of the world are more active, simply because there are more options available for a family to enjoy together. Getting out and exercising is mostly a matter of individual discipline, but going out in the evening to stroll with the entire family, to meet neighbors, or snack from a stand of real food, or make a few purchases is not something most Americans can do ....... unless they drive to the mall .

[fumobici]

From the top of my page here:





Think how many calories and fat that thing has compared to a proper Italian thin crust Neapolitan.