Scandinavia and the extreme right

[bixaorellana]

Is anyone here knowledgeable about the political climate in that part of the world?

My impression of countries fraught with neo-nazi groups comes from reading detective novels and articles about Stieg Larsson's life, hardly sufficient to create a true impression.

There have been news reports of anti-immigrant feelings in those countries, but certainly that's true in other parts of the world as well.

So -- does anyone know?

[lagatta]

I am somewhat knowledgeable about this, know people who knew Stieg Larsson.

I don't think that Scandinavia is somehow uniquely neo-fascist (this post is only about racist, xenophobic people - I'm not getting into free-market vs social-democratic here). But what appears evident is denial. However that is not unique to Sweden or other Nordic countries - there were several Hitler symps in Britain and us Catholic Latins certainly fawned over Mussolini and Franco - of course not Hitler as we were "inferior beings" from that standpoint.

And there were Nazi symps in the British ruling class - fortunately the ones that abdicated - and Henry Ford in the US, and of course others in South America.

In general, Sweden has been most generous not only to economic migrants but also to refugees. I don't know much about how well they have integrated and how they fit in to Swedish society.

I think Larsson is most attuned to the hypocricy and denial. This is real, but it is not easy to deal with much larger totalitarian powers.

[hwinpp]

I think Bixa might have meant more present day?

I don't think they have a big neo- fascist scene but given its known tolerance, Sweden attracts a lot of those people from mainland Europe when it gets too hot for them there.

[Deleted]

Based on what filters to the rest of Europe, at least France, there seem to be two Scandinavias in each of the countries:

--Norway, the most generous country in the world for foreign aid (in terms of percentage of GNP devoted to same) and yet completely turned inwards to avoid seeing Europe and not wanting to participate in the EU.

--Sweden, the most generous country for the acceptance of refugees, but with a certain superiority complex. When you talk to Swedes about the subject, often they imply that it is not done so much out of generosity but to show the rest of the world how good they are. Dry hearts but large wallets.

--Denmark, long considered the most liberal country in the world but with a significant percentage of its population fed up with marginals, free spirits and foreigners.

--As for Finland, it stays pretty discreet, but that it probably because it spent 50 years trying not to be noticed by the Soviet Union.

Most of this is probably inaccurate since it is all filtered through the media, but that is how people make their opinions about the various countries. Nevertheless, considering the low population of Scandinavia, it gets a lot more attention than many comparable countries because the "Scandinavian model" is such an icon, even when it doesn't work.

[bixaorellana]

May 25, 2010 9:29:26 GMT kerouac2 said:

Most of this is probably inaccurate since it is all filtered through the media, but that is how people make their opinions about the various countries.

That is quite true, but part of the reason for my question is that so far I haven't found much current media to backup the impression formed from reading novels.

Since Larsson in real life was an investigative journalist who strove to expose right-wing extremists, it is tempting to assume that his fictional depictions are based on fact. Shortly after reading his novels, I read a Norwegian one which also prominently featured the existence of the same kind of groups as part of the plot.

However, I remember that some years ago in the US, it seemed that childhood sexual abuse by parents was the "surprise" denouement in enough novels and films to give the impression that almost all parents were abusing their children. Possibly the movie Chinatown started the trend. By the same token, after the huge success of The DaVinci Code there has been a spate of fictional depictions of murkily mystical/political global organizations. Should I believe in those, as well?

This thread could segue into a conversation about how fiction affects our view of reality, but as HW noted, I am curious about Scandinavia's current fictional representation as an area with a pervasive neo-Nazi problem.

Kerouac's precis of the European media depiction of Scandinavia is extremely interesting, particularly since I've only been exposed to the scanty US media viewpoint -- which would be that they're either wonderful liberal people with a highly successful socialistic system, or that they're gray drudges, crippled under the weight of a ridiculous tax system.

[bjd]

Bixa, I think one of the problems is that you are reading detective stories. Of course, they are going to insist on dark, murky and unpleasant things. If you read Henning Mankell, you get the impression that there are tons of lunatics in Sweden. And the police in the books also tend to be alcoholics, with family problems, etc.

On the other hand, all the Scandinavian countries have few social inequalities, a very good social welfare system, good education and health systems and a high standard of living. So it definitely can't be all bad.

I don't think detective stories written anywhere nowadays are as light-hearted (despite the murders) as they were when written by Agatha Christie or Dorothy L Sayers. Perhaps the large number of immigrants and rapid changes in Scandinavian countries are fodder for writers.

[Deleted]

And I still need to find out the rules for Muslims living in the "land of the midnight sun" during Ramadan!

[bjd]

According to this answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090731090115AAvsLEv, they choose a standard reference time.

[bixaorellana]

Bjd, point taken about detective novels. I read lots of them, which might lead me to conclude that the US doesn't have lots of serial killers, but those they have are so fiendishly clever, you almost have to admire them. By the same token, I"know" that every fresh-faced, normally social, gainfully employed guy in England who is just a little too old to still be living with Mum has a secret lair somewhere filled with instruments of torture and splashed with old blood.

So yes, I'm taking the naturally noir bent of the genre into consideration, but still questioning why the topic comes up so regularly in the Scandinavian detective novel.

[Deleted]

The recent Swedish elections certainly confirmed a major turn to the right. I saw quite a few articles about "good" immigrants vs. "bad" immigrants, just like in every other country, so I guess Sweden is less exceptional than it used to be.