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Post by livaco on Jul 4, 2010 13:11:50 GMT
I feel like I need to share this story with someone, and I am not sure yet about doing so with people I know in real life.
Why my Camping Trip Was Cut Short
So there we were fishing in a lake in beautiful wilderness, and I get a message on my cell phone (reception is iffy around there, but pretty good in the actual lake). It was my neighbor saying give him a call.
Now, we were up there a few days and had left our almost-18 year old home. Looking back, we should have insisted he came with us, but we figured he’d be ok, and he wanted to be with his friends and girlfriend. Well, anyway the neighbor said that our son’s girlfriend had broken up with him and he was very upset. And he called ?? the police ?? or the mental health complex and they called the police?? I’m not sure yet of the details. He said that he needed to talk to someone, he was worried that he might want to kill himself.
Well, the police came and took him to the Mental Health Complex in an ambulance..
So, of course, we are pretty worried at this news and start to head home. Not an easy/quick task since we were camping on an island with two boat-trips worth of gear and then a four hour drive from home after that.
On the way home we managed to talk to our son and find out more. Because he was brought in by the police and deemed a danger to himself he cannot be discharged without seeing a psychiatrist. But... since this was Saturday night there is no psychiatrist on duty on Sunday AND... Monday is a National Holiday so no one then either. He is in there until Tuesday. And he was saying to me that some girl was screaming and he thinks he will go crazy being there. He was saying Mom, I'm ok now, just get me out of here! After I had talked to my son and other people on the staff there, hours later I first got a call from the place telling me he was there, and I could visit at 5pm. I said first of all, I know he is there, why don’t you know I know? And second, the other guy said 2pm. Then she said, oh yeah on the weekend it’s 2pm. !!!! What kind of place is my boy in??
Anyway, I am calling them soon (it’s too early now), and I think I should be able, as his mom, to see him before 2pm or at least bring him books/clothes etc. And I at least want to see where he's at.
They said I can’t bring his laptop or cell phone. I feel like he is in jail or something. My poor baby has the worst day of his life, calls someone for help, and gets just the opposite! Locked up with no one to help him. But I am also glad he is safe.. I'm not really sure how I feel about it all...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2010 14:18:30 GMT
Livaco, I'm sorry to hear of all the troubles you are having at the moment. At least your son is in a safe place. The teenage years are very difficult, and something like a breakup with his girlfriend can seem devastating to an 18 year old. They see things very much in the here and now. We know they will get over it, but to them it seems they never will. My sixteen year old has just broken up with his girlfriend recently and he's really upset about it too. Goes around with a long face. It's hard to know what to say to them. Just be there for them and try and distract them or just let them talk.
The thing with kids that age is, it's hard to make them do anything if they really don't want to do it. So, I wouldn't feel bad about not insisting on him going on the camping trip with you. If they don't want to go, they won't. And making them only causes more arguments and trouble then it's worth.
I hope this all gets sorted out soon for your son, if you need to talk, please don't hesitate to PM me.
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Post by auntieannie on Jul 4, 2010 15:06:47 GMT
oooh, shooks!
that's truly shitty, Livaco!
Thinking of your poor son. But he's lucky he's got you. He'll be fine and hopefully will be released as quickly as possible. Deep breath. We're all thinking of you.
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Post by bixaorellana on Jul 4, 2010 16:27:24 GMT
My god, Livaco -- this is a nightmare!
I'm guessing part of the reason you wrote is to be able to do something to keep from climbing the walls.
You are on the same time I am, and 8:11 in the morning should not be too early for a parent to call a facility and find out what the hell is going on with her child. And it is absolutely criminal that it took them what, at least half a day?, to get around to calling you.
It sounds as though your boy wanted to call a hotline in order to talk out his feelings, but didn't know how to get a number for that, so called the mental health complex. If he got some poorly trained or alarmist person on the other end of the line, you can see how the situation would go downhill from there.
Whatever the reason, the whole thing was handled very, very poorly and the facility needs to be reported at the state level for their obscenely lackadaisical attitude.
Do you by any chance have a family friend who is a psychiatrist, or perhaps a doctor? Maybe something can be done to have your boy released today.
If it's any consolation at all, being in that facility is going to help your son see that feeling sad and upset over a break-up is normal and something that people live through. He will know that he was suffering, but that he's not crazy.
Poor baby! Poor you.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2010 16:37:22 GMT
I feel for you, livaco. When my mother was first in the nursing home, she was very unhappy about it. One day she bit and slapped the nurse ho was trying to shove pills down her throat, and on top of that, she said "leave me alone or I'll jump out the window!" So they decided to have her carted off because she was "suicidal."
Naturally this one on a Friday, so the hospital kept her prisoner until Monday afternoon, no matter what I said. But at least they didn't stop me from spending all Saturday and all Sunday with her, so I could fend off the crazy people who kept walking into the room.
I am really against the concept of hospitals having the same weekends and holidays as the post office. People should be able to get full treatment 7 days a week -- and it should also be possible to discharge them 7 days a week.
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Post by cristina on Jul 4, 2010 20:56:16 GMT
Oh livaco, I am so sorry to read about this! I'm sure your son will be fine but I know this is a stressful experience for your family.
I read on the Milwaukee County mental health website that they have a mobile team available for assessments/crisis interventions that is available nearly 24/7 - including weekends and holidays. If that team is available right now, it is unforgivable that there is no one available on-site to evaluate your son.
Hang in there, and do let us know, when you can, how things are going.
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Post by livaco on Jul 4, 2010 23:38:21 GMT
Thank you all for your responses. It really means a LOT to me. I just spent the whole afternoon with him. He went from being pretty near despondent to seeming pretty much ok. I think he had to make peace with the idea that he really will be there until Tuesday at the earliest. (And we tried. There's no way it could be earlier.)
I can see where they have their reasons for doing things the way they do, but there are so many things wrong with it all -- things that you all said.
But thanks all for listening. I do think/hope that it all will be for the best in the end.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2010 23:55:21 GMT
So sorry to hear this happened to you Livaco and am glad to hear that you were able to see your son. I work a Mental Health Crisis Hotline here and I can only say that when a call comes in and the caller is despondent expressing suicidal ideation,immediate measures are taken and the police are notified and the whole process can take on some bizarre twists along the way.(Sometimes the police are not exactly the most empathic etc.). The main concern is to get the person to a safe place,albeit in this case,perhaps not the most professional of facilities. Depending on where he was taken,the facility I'm assuming is a State run facility,the personnel on duty in most of these places particularly on the weekends,and in this case a holiday weekend,are not always the most professional either (shitty pay etc.). Basically,the staff tend to be more glorified babysittters. When I worked weekends on a unit,many times the staff working with me were not even mental health workers,and their orientation is at the most basic of levels.This put an extra heavy burden on the trained staff. The burn out rate is very high. None of what you describe sounds at all surprising to me. I am in no way defending the system,it simply is how it works, unfortunately. Again,sorry for your horrible experience.
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Post by happytraveller on Jul 5, 2010 6:48:59 GMT
Oh dear... what a nightmare ! I am sorry this has happened to your son Livaco. I hope he'll be home soon and can get the loving support he so desperately needs right now. It must be very hard for you to see him suffering so much. I hope he will feel much better very soon.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2010 7:17:49 GMT
I'm wondering if this sort of thing is done on purpose regularly. "If we scare the shit out of him, he'll think twice about bothering us again."
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2010 10:02:01 GMT
I'm wondering if this sort of thing is done on purpose regularly. "If we scare the shit out of him, he'll think twice about bothering us again."I'm curious as to who the "we" you are referring to are? There are several separate agencies at work in these matters. They don't generally work hand in hand,most especially the police. As far as the hospital goes,there are times when one does get outdone with some persons who continue to abuse the system. We had one patient,he was a crack addict. He would routinely present himself at the Emergency Room as being suicidal, at the end of the month, when his money had run out and was looking for a free place to stay until his check came in on the first of the month.He knew if he said he was suicidal that they would have to admit him. Once admitted,he always wanted special treatment (extra pillows,chocolate milk...) and refused to comply with the rules on the unit. We never treated him unprofessionally but at the same time did not go out of our way to accommodate him with special treatment either. I remember working one very long Christmas Day and he was the only patient on the unit as all the others were out on pass. I took him out to see a movie and on the way back to the hospital he wanted to stop at the store and have us buy him all kinds of personal items,toiletries etc. It was a bit much.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2010 11:14:12 GMT
I'm referring to "we" the hospital -- they are the ones who have him in lockdown, apparently for no good reason, just the same as what happened to my mother. If they are not already overflowing with patients, this is always a good way to suck more money out of the health care and insurance systems.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2010 11:47:05 GMT
I couldn't agree more with you K. about hospitals and other health care facilities keeping patients to milk them for insurance monies etc. It was one of the reasons I burned out and left the profession. I had ongoing battles with the administration about this. But,the hospital also has a responsibility to keep a patient under observation for an average 72 hour time frame when they are admitted as suicidal. Because of the holiday weekend,this may take longer,and it shouldn't. (I don't know what type of facility this young man is in so it's difficult to pass judgment let alone form an opinion about). The flip side of my experience with this was a young woman,very bright,charming and very cunning as well as being suicidal. I spent a significant period of time evaluating her,formed an alliance with her and was sure that she would carry out her plan to kill herself. I documented all this and conveyed my concern to all the staff. After going home one day from work,a resident on call that night came to evaluate her and the patient was able to convince the resident that she was not suicidal.The patient was discharged that evening. I came to work the next day and during the course of my shift,received word that the patient had killed herself the night before. I received a note in the mail from her a few days later, written just prior to killing herself, thanking me for trying to help her.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2010 12:00:39 GMT
The clever ones will always succeed. Hey, but we shouldn't be going off topic about livaco's problem.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2010 12:06:32 GMT
The clever ones will always succeed. Hey, but we shouldn't be going off topic about livaco's problem. I think it does address the problem in that her son is being kept there for observation because he expressed suicidal ideation and was despondent.Granted,perhaps longer than may be necessary. Maybe I'm missing something here,sorry.
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Post by palesa on Jul 5, 2010 13:01:20 GMT
Am sorry to read this Livaco, am glad to hear that you got to spend some time with him. Hopefully this will be sorted soon.
Poor boy, poor you!
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Post by livaco on Jul 5, 2010 15:06:04 GMT
No, I don't consider it off-topic at all. It is really helpful to me to hear about others' experiences either through places you've worked or things that have happened to you and yours. The whole thing is just a crazy new world for me.
As flawed as his situation seems right now, at least he is somewhere safe. Maybe it is all for the best to have this much time away from his home, and his friends and routine, and everything to remind him of his g/f. Tomorrow he will speak to a professional; I hope he or she can be of help. And I will work out some sort of regular therapy, too. We shall see how it all goes.
I think in some ways it is harder to be a parent at this age than any of the other ages.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2010 17:24:42 GMT
Do you think that he was really suicidal or just needed a dramatic way to express extreme displeasure with his life?
(Do any parents really know their children?)
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Post by livaco on Jul 5, 2010 17:52:17 GMT
Do you think that he was really suicidal or just needed a dramatic way to express extreme displeasure with his life? (Do any parents really know their children?)k2, I really think it was the latter, and he has said as much. His friends that I have talked agreed. But... how can anyone really know?? And it's not something you want to take a chance with. I think that certainly parents know some things about their children, just from knowing them their whole lives, especially things about their temperments and moods and such. (For example I know that if you are talking or debating something with my son don't use words such as "literally" or "everyone" unless you really mean them.) But, I'm sure there is a LOT that I don't know about him. I think it is even a healthy thing to a certain point that a teenager starts to develop their own lives that don't include their parents, since they have to be ready soon to live on their own.. But it all makes it tough as a parent to know the balance of giving them too much freedom or not enough.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2010 20:34:52 GMT
Well, just make sure that he understands that if the whole thing was just a theatrical performance to show his girlfriend that he can't live without her, nothing can drive her away faster. Emotional blackmail is very common, but it always lead to tragedy, one way or another.
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Post by bixaorellana on Jul 5, 2010 21:03:29 GMT
Livaco, I admire you so much, as you are being so level-headed about all of this. You are already doing one of the most important things right now, which is letting him know that he's not being judged for his actions, nor are you assuming that anything he did was done for effect.
Remember that many of the things we've already experienced have yet to be faced by younger people. The first really painful thing could very well be such a shock that a kid would briefly feel he simply couldn't take it. There is a huge gap between that feeling and actually acting on it, of course, and it seems to me your son demonstrated his basic rationality by reaching out for help.
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Post by livaco on Jul 5, 2010 21:21:18 GMT
Well, just make sure that he understands that if the whole thing was just a theatrical performance to show his girlfriend that he can't live without her, nothing can drive her away faster. Emotional blackmail is very common, but it always lead to tragedy, one way or another. Well now, worded this way it doesn't quite seem to be what I meant. I think he really felt desperate and at the end of his rope and it was a cry for help because he didn't know what to do. I don't think it was a calculated move to get her back. I certainly hope not.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2010 22:31:30 GMT
Well, just make sure that he understands that if the whole thing was just a theatrical performance to show his girlfriend that he can't live without her, nothing can drive her away faster. Emotional blackmail is very common, but it always lead to tragedy, one way or another. Well now, worded this way it doesn't quite seem to be what I meant. I think he really felt desperate and at the end of his rope and it was a cry for help because he didn't know what to do. I don't think it was a calculated move to get her back. I certainly hope not. All the more reason why cell phones and laptops are restricted in these places. It may seem punitive but,not having these available to him right now may allow him to focus better on what's going on and not be in communication with her,but, with family.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2010 8:58:34 GMT
Livaco, I didn't mean to imply that your son consciously "overacted" but once you start going in that direction, it's easy to lose control with the snowball effect. If you back down, you lose credibility, so you keep pushing forward until... oops!
Not to pry, but was the girlfriend breaking up with him a planned move by her, or did some unexpected incident suddenly occur that made her call it quits?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2010 10:52:33 GMT
I can see what you mean totally, livaco. I've tried to let my kids go, gradually. Let them make their own (small) mistakes when younger, so that hopefully they will learn something about not making the big ones when older. It's a fine balance though.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2010 13:36:01 GMT
That's an eye opener for me, I never thought that people would actually abuse the system in that way, but I can see how this kind of behavior would go through the loopholes. I guess this way the insurance companies have to pay out no matter what.
I have heard of cases however, where relatives of people who have committed suicide, fraudulently claim that person's death as 'accident' in order to get the insurance companies to pay out to them. So totally wrong, no idea how many get caught or are investigated later on regarding this...
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Post by livaco on Jul 6, 2010 21:17:17 GMT
Hey everybody,
So he was evaluated and deemed ok and is home now. He seems good, and we are setting up regular therapy sessions.
I want to thank all of you for your input and support. It was really appreciated.
k2 -- in answer to your question about their breakup -- I don't really know. I have asked and he said he didn't really want to talk about it. He said that he does talk about it to friends, but didn't want to share with me at least not right now at least not in detail. He did say that he is doing ok with it and with her, so I guess we shall see. I do get some sense of everything from being both of their facebook friends. It seems like they are trying to still be friends and are respectful to each other.
Hopefully he will be able to share things now with a therapist.
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Post by bixaorellana on Jul 6, 2010 21:20:20 GMT
Thanks for the update, Livaco. It seems a case of "all's well that ends well", in that he's talking to you and willing to see a therapist.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2010 21:42:35 GMT
At that age, there are quite few people who bond for the next 30 or 40 years, but there are far more who will live through passion and drama over and over again until the hormones settle down and real life slaps them in the face.
In French, there is an amusing expression to describe people who are constantly falling in love, generally for very brief periods: "un coeur d'artichaut" (an artichoke heart) -- you just keep peeling off the leaves but there are always more!
I'm not saying that your son is at all that way, livaco, but no matter how he is, there are endless layers of life to still peel off until he reaches the essential bit.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2010 21:46:02 GMT
Good to hear livaco!! Thanks for the update. Adolescent angst sucks...
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