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Post by whatagain on Aug 19, 2024 7:16:42 GMT
Funnily enough DNR is written NTBR in Belgium. Not to be reanimated.
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Post by whatagain on Aug 19, 2024 7:22:26 GMT
Tonight we have a family gathering. Our neighbour, aunt/sister and greatmother of our daughters plus our oldest, her boyfriend and …. Tadaam … drums…. The parents of the boyfriend. First time we meet.
My wife is making a list of all the things I mustn’t do or say. Don’t get drunk. Don’t say all your sex jokes. Don’t fart. Don’t offer having group sex Don’t dance half naked on the table.
It will be a difficult time for me 🤪🤪😂😂
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Post by cheerypeabrain on Aug 19, 2024 7:58:16 GMT
Good luck old bean...
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Post by tod2 on Aug 19, 2024 8:01:46 GMT
Whatagain you have a charming personality so just be yourself. Get the visitors tipsy.....
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Post by mickthecactus on Aug 19, 2024 16:35:00 GMT
You little scamp......
The fun never ends!
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Post by mich64 on Aug 19, 2024 18:47:54 GMT
This is why the hospice nurse told us that when our loved one died, don’t call 911 right away. Sit with their body till it begins to cool. That way they can’t do any unwanted heroics. Kimby the same information given to us by my in-law's doctor regarding the DNR (we too were instructed to be taped to the fridge) and also the same advice given about not calling 911 right away including the advice of waiting until the body cools.
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Post by mich64 on Aug 19, 2024 18:50:47 GMT
Hope that your evening is going well whatagain! Exciting times to be meeting the parents of the boyfriend as that may mean perhaps an engagement is being planned.
Cheers
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Post by onlyMark on Aug 19, 2024 20:16:57 GMT
Mich, Kimby - leave the body until it cools - your loved one has just collapsed and croaked on the kitchen floor. And.....? What if they collapse and take a while to die....... Hurry up already? Do you know they are dead? You've somehow checked? You know how to determine if someone is dead? You do what? Stand around for an hour or so? If they're not cooling down they must be alive still? How does this leaving them until they are cool thing work then? In practical terms?
Plus, how do you explain, if asked, especially by someone in an official capacity, why you did nothing? (You know in some countries you are legally obliged to help someone. It is an offence to just turn your back.) Does a DNR override everything in that regard?
Imagine they are in bed. They have a "death rattle". You sit and wait for them to die..... And then add on another hour or so to cool? Maybe put on the aircon to speed it up a bit?
I've no idea, but I know resisting trying to keep them alive if they are at home would not be easy for me. For me this leaving them to cool is a non-starter. Imagine you have a sister/brother/child ring you. "How is he"? "He died about a quarter of an hour ago and I'm waiting for him to cool down before I call........" "What!!!" "Well, he does have a DNR." FFS.
I may be misunderstanding this thing.........
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Post by Kimby on Aug 19, 2024 21:00:41 GMT
Mark, this “let the body cool” is advice given to family members of a terminally ill person who is in hospice care and exhibiting signs of impending death. Not just a death rattle, but mottled skin, not eating or drinking, unconscious, etc.
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Post by whatagain on Aug 19, 2024 22:32:09 GMT
We spent a fantastic evening. They are lovely people and they love our daughter. And we love their son because when he is around my daughter is happy. So it was a lovely evening.
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Post by htmb on Aug 19, 2024 23:24:05 GMT
You couldn’t ask for anything better!
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Post by questaredux on Aug 20, 2024 5:57:04 GMT
Sorry to break the mood...
Australians love champions and much of the country is saddened at the present by the death last week of the great racehorse " Black Caviar". This beautiful mare only raced against other champions and she ran 25 races and won all 25. She retired and produced 9 foals who are also winning Billions.
Black Caviar was 18 years old and developed an excruciating condition in her hooves. She was carrying a male foal and the decision was made to deliver him prematurely then euthanise the mare. This was done but the little one was just too small to live and to Australia's sorrow we lost him as well.
Ceremonies and memorial activities are being held to mark the splendour of this champion of Champions.
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Post by kerouac2 on Aug 20, 2024 8:49:26 GMT
Sounds as bad as Alain Delon.
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Post by onlyMark on Aug 20, 2024 9:11:29 GMT
Last quick thing then from me on this subject - a DNR on file in a hospital/hospice, even an old folk's home works. I have no issue with that subject. What I was wondering about is many request and are allowed home and receive just palliative care. Or those with a known terminal disease but also in a home environment - hence when there is mention of a DNR stuck on a fridge, and/or not calling for help, ambulance, doctor etc in practical terms, curiosity made me wonder what you would do.
When then it is said - "....is advice given to family members of a terminally ill person who is in hospice care and exhibiting signs of impending death" - then the link between this and the advice about putting a DNR on a fridge (in a Hospice?) escapes me - unless the person is at home - and if so, revert back to the previous paragraph.
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Post by kerouac2 on Aug 20, 2024 10:43:47 GMT
My education friend is about to leave for three years in Madagascar where he will be in charge of six different schools (the French secondary school and five lower level French schools). He has to meet the ambassador in Antananarivo next week and apparently six senators have already scheduled a visit on their taxpayer funded useless junkets in the next month. (They like to add something like this to their equally useless visits to Réunion and Mayotte because it gives them some international credibility.) This sounds quite challenging to me, but what sounded even move challenging was the fate of his replacement at the secondary school in the suburb of Argenteuil. The new person is coming from the territory of St. Pierre & Miquelon (pop. 4,800) where he worked in an office with 2 people, and this high school has about 1,600 students (+ staff). And while Argenteuil is not one of the more problematic suburbs of Paris, my friend told me about all of the police interventions, religious disputes and disciplinary councils every week there. I think his world is about to change.
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Post by bjd on Aug 20, 2024 11:27:20 GMT
One of our daughter's friends was sent for his first teaching job to Sevran, in 93. Young teachers, police, many civil servants have to go north before they are allowed to apply for jobs closer to their southern homes. He told us about his pupils offering to sell him drugs. He couldn't wait to leave the place and managed to get out early because he is a semi-professional football referee and they pulled strings for him.
Kerouac, your friend and his replacement are both in for big surprises. Are you going to go and visit him in Madagascar?
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Post by kerouac2 on Aug 20, 2024 12:31:48 GMT
I certainly hope to visit. I saw photos of the villa where he will be living (French government provided housing) and its huge grounds. There is a person for all of the cooking and cleaning and also a gardener. They earn 150 euros a month. (I just looked up the average salary in Antananarivo and it is 41 euros a month.)
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Post by tod2 on Aug 20, 2024 15:02:54 GMT
My niece (RIP) Gaynor lived on Madagascar for a few months. She said it was impossible to get anything done as the inhabitants she dealt with always put things off for the next day....and the next....and the next.
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Post by kerouac2 on Aug 20, 2024 15:17:02 GMT
That is so true in a lot of countries. But it's fine as long as you don't have an urgent problem.
By the way, my friend asked me (already looking ahead to various holidays) if he should go to South Africa. I said yes, definitely, but I was only able to recommend Cape Town and Kruger (I have never been to Kruger myself but hey!) He asked about Johannesburg and Pretoria and I said no and no. I should have added Durban to my list, but since I was there 25 years ago, it is hard to know what is appropriate for a neophyte. (He is not the most adventurous person in the world even though I have travelled with him to the United States, Canada, Taiwan and Vietnam, long long ago. Then again, if he hadn't been working there, I probably never would have gone to Brazil or Guatemala.)
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Post by mich64 on Aug 20, 2024 18:34:21 GMT
Mich, Kimby - leave the body until it cools - your loved one has just collapsed and croaked on the kitchen floor. Yes, as Kimby has described, this advice is for the terminally ill, end stage patients, those that there is no further treatment for. I understand your post and how you imagined how this would be if someone had a heart attack or stroke in the kitchen, or a child. No, this is for the benefit of the terminally ill or elderly who do not want to have life saving measures applied that the ambulance paramedics and firefighters would be mandated to apply when called. Most patients (as my father-in-law had) already have a notification from their doctor sent to the funeral home where the body is picked up directly from the home, no police intervention required due to the doctor notifying of the expected passing. But, if 911 was called, they would be mandated to apply life saving measures unless there is an obvious death such as the body has cooled. Actually, no different from finding someone who has passed away in their sleep found the next morning. It sounds horrible, and I can tell you the experience is horrible. But, for a 94 year old man suffering from stage 4 bone cancer, he did not want any chance of any further assistance in staying alive. They also have to be of sound mind to have their doctor clear the DNR choice being made and then this advice is given to the family on how to proceed to make the process go as humanely as possible.
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Post by kerouac2 on Aug 20, 2024 19:19:22 GMT
I basically had both of my parents terminated, even if it wasn't legal. Even with a living will, although the medical people are not supposed to do certain things, they do them anyway. When my father was in his final moments, my mother signed the document to make them stop treatment. She was already not mentally competent, but they said it was better if she signed it instead of me. Fine. When my mother was on her death bed with the death rattle, I gave the nursing home a document about not treating her when it was no longer worth it, and she magically stopped living just a couple of hours later after the nurse said "i'll give her a shot for the pain." My mother was in no pain because she was completely unconscious.
These things are much simpler when there is not a big family to debate what to do and the medical personnel are pragmatic and realistic.
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Post by Kimby on Aug 20, 2024 19:57:37 GMT
Mark’s confusion seems to relate to the word “hospice”, which CAN be in a hospice facility, but can also refer to patients choosing to stay in their homes. Both my parents wanted to stay there until they were “carried out feet first”, and they both got their wish. (And Dad would have LOVED it that the 2 gals from the funeral home that carried him out were young and gorgeous!)
In addition to the caregivers hired by the family, hospice provides visiting nurses to follow the patient’s need for palliative care. Morphine is doled out for pain, and as K2 has noted, can hurry the process a bit.
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Post by lugg on Aug 20, 2024 20:01:47 GMT
..just trying to catch up
Firstly Tod and Cheery - what great news for you both
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Post by lugg on Aug 20, 2024 20:07:25 GMT
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Post by onlyMark on Aug 20, 2024 20:54:32 GMT
So a Hospice, which I know as a building, can be a hospice treatment at home and that is where you put your DNR notice on the fridge. Ok, got it. And if you are there you allow them to die and wait for the body to cool before calling anyone. Ok, got it as well.
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Post by Kimby on Aug 20, 2024 20:58:58 GMT
Right. “In hospice care” doesn’t necessarily mean in a hospice facility. If you can afford in-home caregivers, hospice nurses become part of the team when it seems the patient could die within 6 months.
Sometimes they die only days later, sometimes they live more than a year after hospice is engaged. Like Jimmy Carter, who says he wants to live long enough to vote for Kamala Harris.
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Post by questaredux on Aug 21, 2024 1:27:21 GMT
There is another aspect to factor in with Time of Death decisions. We have been talking about elderly people but not those who have agreed to allow Organ Transplant donations. It requires the donor to be attached to the life support system while still functioning and then the machine takes over and death occurs.
This is not talked about much but is why families withdraw their permission at the last moment.It is hard enough to ask a family for organs or bone tissue etc but to conjure up images they can't cope with takes a very special courage on the families' part.
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Post by Kimby on Aug 21, 2024 1:59:38 GMT
Hadn’t thought about that, questa. Though with the very elderly, perhaps that isn’t a problem since their organs are elderly too.
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Post by whatagain on Aug 24, 2024 12:29:45 GMT
Wondering what you think of choosing Rachel Zegler as Snow White in the last Disney.
I think Snow White should remain … white as the snow.
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Post by cheerypeabrain on Aug 24, 2024 15:58:23 GMT
Had to google Rachel Zegler. I think that the generation that the film is aimed at will accept the character without question....altho they'll have to remove the 'and her skin was as white as snow'. It isn't a problem, it's just different. Moving on
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