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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2013 12:00:50 GMT
More, please.
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Post by lugg on May 1, 2013 18:25:18 GMT
Thank you for sharing your memories, your wonderful photos and of course your frame of " bits and pieces" as you call them Mossie. Thanks for the link Htmb, very interesting to read and at first I wondered how on earth you had identified the ship ( Elementary dear Watson ) ;D Yes more please Mossie
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Post by htmb on May 1, 2013 18:31:28 GMT
Yes, please Mossie.
My dad was on a destroyer during WWII. I had already done some previous research. and was thrilled to learn of the number system for identification.
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Post by mossie on May 1, 2013 19:22:47 GMT
I'm afraid that I am having trouble getting photos into Photobucket, my Internet is not behaving. Hopefully things will be OK tomorrow.
Htmb your link was very interesting, someone has as much obsession with destroyers as I have with Paris ;D
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Post by htmb on May 1, 2013 19:29:54 GMT
There are a couple of other destroyer links I found when researching my Dad's destroyer, U.S.S. Jouett #396. I wrote about it, and there are other destroyer links here.
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Post by htmb on May 2, 2013 2:51:25 GMT
Mossie, was the framed medal the one awarded to you fifty years after the fact?
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Post by mossie on May 2, 2013 7:44:16 GMT
Yes, our politicians were so desperate to sweep the whole shambles under the carpet that we became non people. There was a rumour before I came home that we would get some medal, but it all went quiet. Some people fought a long campaign in Whitehall for us.
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Post by mossie on May 2, 2013 18:31:36 GMT
I've strayed from the subject so we will get back to aeroplanes A couple of years ago I met another navigator who had served on the squadron in England with me. We did not recognise each other at first, old age has some drawbacks, but eventually got sorted out. He could not remember which pilot I was crewed with and when I told him, Joe, he came straight back with a memory which had obviously made quite an impression on him. It was the first time we had flown as a pair to this crew soon after we had joined the squadron. Apparently we had been carrying out an exercise together and it was normal to join up to return to base when the time came. His pilot was leading. Joe was an excellent close formation pilot and really knew how to tuck his wing in and hold it steady. Anyway, when the call came for Joe to close up it seems this navigator was busy in the cockpit. Suddenly something caught his eye, our wingtip was a few feet away from him, and he said "there was Joe grinning at us". Gave him quite a shock. ;D ;D Here is a loose formation pic which was perhaps what they were expecting. Notice the canal in the background, which is nothing to do with the shot, just helps it look pretty. Remember that these were taken with a camera which had the equivalent of a 50mm lens.
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Post by htmb on May 2, 2013 22:16:59 GMT
Could you tell us more about your camera....... Or have you done that and I've just forgotten?
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Post by mossie on May 3, 2013 7:21:47 GMT
The camera was an Agfa Isolette, a nice simple folding job taking 120 (6cm) rollfilm, giving 12 shots per film. Three speeds, 25th, 50th and 200th sec. An 85 mm f 4.5 lens with a focussing ring where one estimated the distance and set what seemed right. Exposure was variable between f4.5 and f32, again by estimation. Quite adequate for black and white, but colour was much more difficult. Having to work out exposure etc yourself gave a good understanding of photography. I got the camera just to take these aeroplane shots, but it led me into a lifelong hobby.
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Post by htmb on May 3, 2013 15:26:01 GMT
Wow! That must have taken a lot of skill to get decent shots.
I looked the camera model up and and there are some available via eBay. I sure don't miss the days when you took a whole roll of photos only to find out they were terrible after you'd paid to have them developed.
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Post by mossie on May 3, 2013 16:45:46 GMT
There is far more latitude with black and white film so, unless you are wildly wrong, a printable shot is possible. However colour is a different kettle of fish, exposure has to be correct within a stop. When I came home from Egypt I had 8 weeks disembarkation and surplus leave, until my next posting. I had ordered a car when I'd been home the year before, they had to be ordered a year ahead . I could not drive so had organised a driving licence and some lessons and a test, then got stuck in to learning, or unlearning tractor driving ;D ;D ;D. I also treated myself to a roll of colour fim, took 12 shots and sent it off. I got back 6 black and white prints because the exposure was too far off for colour but OK for B&W. More importantly 4 colour prints, of which this is one. I had saved a couple of shots for my first oppotunity when I reached our new squadron. This picture was taken at about 25,000ft near Great Yarmouth, that particular plane is now in the Yorkshire Air Museum just outside York.
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Post by bixaorellana on May 4, 2013 4:37:09 GMT
Absolutely fascinating, Mossie. I love that 1st pic in #67 -- damn, y'all were close! The other two shots are great, too, with the terrain showing. Did you keep a log of where you took your pictures, or do you just have an amazing memory?
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Post by mossie on May 4, 2013 7:21:48 GMT
No, Bixa, I just have to look at the picture and something surfaces in the addled grey soup which passes for my brain
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2013 17:08:38 GMT
Looking at these scenes over Egypt, I keep thinking of a "debate" on one of the major travel forums a few years ago (maybe as long ago as 5 years ago). Somebody was on a flight from Rome to Cairo and was "horrified" by how she was treated (as well as everybody else on the plane). Basically, Cairo airport was completely fogged in (as happens in certain seasons), and the Alitalia flight was diverted to a military airfield near Alexandria. I think this took place back when Alitalia was on the verge of bankruptcy and the plane probably only had the absolute minimum of fuel to get to Cairo, so a more "luxurious" diversion was out of the question. Anyway, this woman was outraged that where they landed, there were no Alitalia personnel to help them (duh, this is a military airfield), the crew "disappeared" (I doubt that any flight attendant was qualified to organise ground services), they got off the plane and were not offered sandwiches or other refreshments (as I recall, this event occurred around 4am) and after waiting for three hours or so, buses appeared and took all of the passengers to Cairo.
I consider this to be amazingly good service for Egypt and I would certainly not criticize Alitalia for not being able to handle events beyond its control. Just the fact that buses appeared so quickly is amazing.
So, just wondering, Mossie -- did you use the military airfield near Alexandria?
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Post by mossie on May 4, 2013 21:10:25 GMT
No, we were strictly confined to using our own airfields in the Canal Zone. When we went to Malta we overflew the delta and used an airfield at El Adem, near Tobruk, to refuel. This was just over the border in Libya, we sometimes also used Benina, near Benghazi for fuel as well. I was there during a difficult period when the Egyptians were actively trying to get us to leave altogether. They released their worst criminals from the Cairo jails and enlisted them into a militia. These were then sent into the Canal Zone to harass us. If we left the camp we had to be armed and were in danger of being attacked. They also carried out acts of sabotage. We had a squadron of light ack ack guns (40mm Bofors) for airfield defence. One morning about 4am there was a series of explosions, a party of these had crept through the wire fence and blew 4 or 5 up. We had armed guards patrolling the camp perimeter, but they had evaded them.
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Post by bixaorellana on May 7, 2013 14:49:32 GMT
Just getting back to this thread, which despite Mossie's trademark light tone and the many amusing anecdotes, continues to unfold with nuggets of history unknown to me.
Amazing and scary stuff, Mossie. You write: If we left the camp we had to be armed and were in danger of being attacked. Under what circumstances would you all have been leaving the camp at that time? Did you have to go in parties of two or more? I'm assuming there was some kind of curfew, too. Did you all talk about the situation in letters back home, or was it kept pretty quiet?
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Post by mossie on May 14, 2013 7:51:07 GMT
We would occasionally leave camp perhaps to visit our headquarters staff, or the hospital. I also once did range controller at the firing range out in the desert where we practiced firing at ground targets. that was great fun, especially when we did it at night. by day while diving onto the target, one could see local women and children running about picking up the brass cases as they fell from the aircraft. The locals had a nasty habit of ambushing lorries so as to steal the contents. The driver and guard were killed, sometimes being left tied up and buried up to their necks in the sand, very often minus parts of their anatomy as well. When we flew we carried " goolie chits" which promised anyone who helped us a reward.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2013 11:50:13 GMT
What an adventurous life you have led, mossie. Have really enjoyed going through this thread and your memories. The photos are amazing, especially considering the kind of equipment you had to work with back then. I hope you will share more with us soon.
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Post by mossie on May 14, 2013 18:42:57 GMT
My computer is going in to the tech hospital so I'm afraid I cannot post any more pics until it is returned, hopefully before too long. Then I will try and rake up a few more, I have one or two still to be scanned and uploaded to photof****t, fingers crossed. When we had finished our 2½ year stint in Egypt we were posted to another night fighter squadron, recently reformed in Suffolk. Most of our flying, as previously, was devoted to practising interceptions and using various aids to return to base whatever the weather. Almost, we were limited to a minimum visibility and cloudbase.
My job was to get my pilot into such a position as he could safely attempt a landing, then I just shut my eyes and let him get on with it. Cursing if he bounced it ;D ;D Trying to throw 8 tons of aeroplane on to a patch of asphalt at 120mph needs a lot of skill and a bit of luck to achieve a successful outcome. I was lucky in having been able to hone what little skill I had in a good climate so I could cope a bit easier when the weather was bad, as it often is in England.
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Post by spindrift1 on May 25, 2013 10:33:46 GMT
mossie - I am so excited to have found this thread. My Buddhist teacher who is 86 was a glider pilot at the end of WW2. His biggest interest is the subject of WW2 aeroplanes and gliders to this very day! I taught him how to use a computer and he's able to use the internet and email - so I shall now try to teach him how to access this thread. He will be fascinated and delighted. After the war he moved to Hawaii and joined the American air corps.
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Post by tod2 on May 26, 2013 15:50:24 GMT
Mossie I have been reading your stories from the beginning once more and am sorry I have not acknowledged this wonderful thread you created! This is history from 'the horses mouth' ;D The photos are incredible and I hope one day they will find their way into a museum so many more can enjoy them.
I took my father's photos of the flying boat to Foynes Flying Boat Museum- in Ireland. My father was a ground engineer both in Kenya and South Africa and also did a stint in the UK.
I hope your computer comes back from the hospital all cobwebs blown out and rearing to go!
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Post by htmb on Jul 26, 2013 12:30:39 GMT
Because of your reports of being a young boy during WWII, I thought of this thread the other night when watching a NOVA television show on our local Public Television channel. During World War II, Hitler s scientists developed terrifying new weapons of mass destruction. Allied intelligence pored over millions of air photos shot over German territory by specially converted, high-flying Spitfires. With 3D graphics that recreate exactly what the photo spies saw, NOVA tells the suspenseful, previously untold story of air photo intelligence that played a vital role in defeating Hitler.m.video.pbs.org/video/2247408348/The film was quite interesting and informative. I also continue to be fascinated about your own personal stories, as well as your use of photography during your years of service, Mossie. Reading over this thread again has been quite interesting.
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Post by mossie on Jul 26, 2013 18:56:01 GMT
Afraid I cannot see your video htmb, but I guess it refers to a programme we had on the BBC about how Germany developed their "revenge weapons", the ramjet propelled V1 and the rocket V2. The V stands for some long German word meaning revenge. Anyway at home we had more than enough of the V1, there were 19 brought down in our parish! When the enemy first started firing them over at us the fighters were allowed full reign, but later an organised defence system was adopted, with masses of anti aircraft guns in a narrow coastal belt and the fighters operating inland to catch those that got through. About a third managed to elude these defences and reach the general London area. This meant for us that these bombs, each carrying about a ton of explosive, could either explode above us or crash near us. I particularly remember two, the first we heard coming very low and fast as my mother and I stood out in the garden watching. Diving down in a desperate attempt to catch it, was a Mustang. He wasn't gaining so fired a long burst, more in hope than expectation. Luckily he didn't hit it as it passed harmlessly a few hundred feet above us. Then I heard a strange rustling sound as some of his bullets went through the hedge at the top of our garden, maybe 30 feet away. The other was in late March 1945, when the war was virtually finished. The Germans had modified some to have a much longer range and one of these crashed into a field about 300 yards from our house at the edge of the village. It was 7 in the morning and my mother had just come into our bedroom to wake us for school. The window faced directly to the V1. There was the most tremendous flash, followed immediately by a bigger bang. the whole house seemed to lift up and settle down again, a bit of ceiling fell by the end of my bed and some of the windows went. I lay there dazed to hear the glass falling from broken windows all down the village street, and still remember thinking "will this bloody war never end?". It was said that this explosion damaged about 150 houses. The main attack of these V1s had lasted from June to September 1944, so we thought the war was won after that. I still look at the German domination of Europe with some suspicion, even after this length of time, we had been brought up to believe that "the only good German, is a dead one". Old habits die hard.
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Post by htmb on Jul 26, 2013 19:09:46 GMT
Your experiences are quite powerful in your telling! Yikes!!!
Yes, the V1 and the V2 were a big part of the video I saw.
In the report they showed how cameras were mounted in the underside of planes (Spitfires?) and pilots flew over areas taking many thousands of photographs which were then analyzed and sorted by a huge staff of people recruited from various walks of life.
Here's a more through description:
During World War II, Hitler's scientists developed terrifying new weapons of mass destruction. Alarmed by rumors about advanced rockets and missiles, Allied intelligence recruited a team of brilliant minds from British universities and Hollywood studios to a country house near London. Here, they secretly pored over millions of air photos shot at great risk over German territory by specially converted, high-flying Spitfires. Peering at the photos through 3D stereoscopes, the team spotted telltale clues that revealed hidden Nazi rocket bases. The photos led to devastating Allied bombing raids that were crucial setbacks to the German rocket program and helped ensure the success of the D-Day landings. With 3D graphics that recreate exactly what the photo spies saw, NOVA tells the suspenseful, previously untold story of air photo intelligence that played a vital role in defeating Hitler.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2013 18:20:24 GMT
Video "not available" in my country either.
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Post by htmb on Jul 27, 2013 18:25:25 GMT
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Post by patricklondon on Jul 27, 2013 18:33:22 GMT
Indeed, and they found the most effective camouflage for them, against clouds and sky, was to paint them PINK.
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Post by mossie on Oct 16, 2015 18:09:39 GMT
Having recently been on a massive ego trip, I had a very competent artist paint a scened based on one of my photos. Being in colour certainly helps to bring it all back for me
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Post by bixaorellana on Oct 16, 2015 18:17:29 GMT
What a brilliant idea, Mossie! Not only is the painting really good, it points up how wonderful the original composition is. I'm really happy to see this thread again. It's easy to forget how much gold is hidden in the Anyport hills.
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