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Brexit
Oct 31, 2021 18:48:29 GMT
Post by bjd on Oct 31, 2021 18:48:29 GMT
Please correct me if I’m wrong but the Brit trawlers that offload in France are selling to the EU market? Yes, and as Macron just said in his press conference in Rome, the fishing agreement between Britain and the EU is just that -- not a bilateral agreement with France.
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Brexit
Oct 31, 2021 19:22:48 GMT
via mobile
Post by mickthecactus on Oct 31, 2021 19:22:48 GMT
So are the French /EU not cutting their own throats?
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Brexit
Oct 31, 2021 20:08:00 GMT
Post by onlyMark on Oct 31, 2021 20:08:00 GMT
Both sides need stop winding each other up with tit for tat threats. Brexit was done and all over bar some details. Now Macron is just playing to the crowd and shit stirring. He's not the only one but he also seems to have a personal hatred for the UK position. He's trying to bring in tactics to bully the UK, maybe even cutting his nose off to spite his face to appear strong and for the French people. All he's doing is getting the backs up of not just the UK, but other EU leaders as well. He wants for France to hold the position that Germany now occupies as the 'leader' of the EU and is spouting off on anything and everything to prove he is the rightful leader of the rightful country to lead Europe - "So my willingness from the very first days of my mandate has been to try to reinvent or restore an actual European sovereignty" - no doubt with him as the King.
He also is fully aware his disapproval rating has been at times over twice is approval rating and is now trying to claw that back by appealing to those who are more radical than he would normally have had to.
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Brexit
Oct 31, 2021 20:54:51 GMT
Post by kerouac2 on Oct 31, 2021 20:54:51 GMT
Normally, it is better to see how things play out before saying anything stupid.
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Brexit
Oct 31, 2021 21:32:50 GMT
Post by onlyMark on Oct 31, 2021 21:32:50 GMT
His threat to cut off the electric by Tuesday(?) is as not credible as it is childish. Just like a kid saying he's going to take his ball home because another kid won't share his sweets with him.
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Brexit
Oct 31, 2021 21:34:29 GMT
Post by kerouac2 on Oct 31, 2021 21:34:29 GMT
You have never seen a kid taking his ball home?
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Brexit
Oct 31, 2021 21:34:55 GMT
Post by onlyMark on Oct 31, 2021 21:34:55 GMT
I used to do it all the time. My balls were always bigger than the other kids'.
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Brexit
Oct 31, 2021 21:46:57 GMT
Post by kerouac2 on Oct 31, 2021 21:46:57 GMT
So you are saying that Macron is going to win.
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Brexit
Oct 31, 2021 22:08:36 GMT
via mobile
Post by mickthecactus on Oct 31, 2021 22:08:36 GMT
We must be punished for leaving EU. Dear oh dear..
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Brexit
Oct 31, 2021 22:46:19 GMT
Post by kerouac2 on Oct 31, 2021 22:46:19 GMT
Well, the rewards of Brexit do not seem to have arrived yet. So far the UK has punished itself with fewer imports and a lack of employees in quite a few industries and services. Aren't all of your unemployed citizens suppose to be filling those jobs? What are they waiting for?
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Brexit
Nov 1, 2021 6:11:16 GMT
Post by onlyMark on Nov 1, 2021 6:11:16 GMT
Imports, whilst took a hit at the time of Brexit, are trending upwards, so don't know where you got your figures from. It is easy to say that as France's imports have been consistently downwards recently it's because they are suffering due to the UK leaving. That's not true but it's a reason I could say that you'd have difficulty to refute.
A lack of employees is not just restricted to the UK and is Europe wide. You sound like a tabloid headline just mentioning the UK when in reality it affects many countries as well. Try harder, be accurate, don't cherry pick a statistic that not only have you got false, but ascribed the wrong cause/reasoning to it/them. Disappointed to wake up to that.
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Brexit
Nov 1, 2021 6:17:12 GMT
Post by onlyMark on Nov 1, 2021 6:17:12 GMT
So you are saying that Macron is going to win. So you saying that Macron is going to lose? Neither of us is saying anything. In debates of this nature it is so obvious you are usually 'reaching' to draw and adverse conclusion out of the fog for effect. In simple terms, Mick has a point that personal feelings, luckily by few EU leaders if not just one, have overcome their professionalism for their own reasons as it serves their purposes to have that attitude. Macron is using Brexit as a tool to try and improve his popularity. It could have been anything he used and politicians in times past have declared war just to increase the possibility of their survival. He doesn't care much at all about the UK but he cares tremendously about his own career. Some others may have had their nose put out of joint by the UK leaving the "family" and don't underestimate the effect of how personal feelings will affect political standpoints. True professionalism and politicians make poor bedfellows. That's why (Aunty) Merkel has been held in high regard whilst Berlusconi is derided. Decisions made due to professionalism as opposed to being made for personal gain, status and popularity.
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Brexit
Nov 1, 2021 6:22:15 GMT
Post by kerouac2 on Nov 1, 2021 6:22:15 GMT
You seem to have forgotten that the EU has not excluded European workers from filling jobs where necessary. Polish plumbers, Italian wait staff and Lithuanian truck drivers are still very much appreciated and welcome and can move and work all through the EU freely. It's one of the things that we like the most. Even the British workers who were already in the EU have not been asked to leave.
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Brexit
Nov 1, 2021 6:42:28 GMT
Post by onlyMark on Nov 1, 2021 6:42:28 GMT
So if the EU is also suffering from jobs not being filled yet they have freedom of movement, then the conclusion has to be Brexit has had minimal effect on this.
You have seemed to focus on this and not the effects of the covid situation, which is the main cause. Why is that? Does not serve your purpose? More entertaining to ascribe false cause and effect conclusions? Will you be saying next that as climate change is accelerating at the same time as Brexit and its effects has been occurring, our leaving the EU has caused wild fires, excess heat and the recent disastrous German floods? Or is that a stretch too far, even for you?
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Brexit
Nov 1, 2021 8:30:39 GMT
Post by kerouac2 on Nov 1, 2021 8:30:39 GMT
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Brexit
Nov 1, 2021 8:38:40 GMT
via mobile
Post by whatagain on Nov 1, 2021 8:38:40 GMT
Actually i am quite enjoying the situation. UK has shortages of every kind. Supermarkets are not well filled, gas had to be distributed by the army, drivers don't want ro go due to admin reasons and even lower wages than elsewhrre. The stock exchange is receding.
As for the industrial side, a lot of companies stopped delivering or are reducing the range of products to be sold to UK in order to avoid the costs of homologation to be redone.
I don't see these effects in the continent.
So, as a guge pro Europe, sayung we need more Europe and not less, i am tbrilled to see how it evolves.
Reading some comments, u feel bad for UK cutizens, but i don't think EU wants to punish them, however tbe arrogance of Bojo not wanting to stick by what he did, what he negotiated is appalling. Each time UK faces problems, he skips responsibility and blames Europe.
The trend here becomes : you wanted out, you are in the sh..., well eat it like a grown man.
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Brexit
Nov 1, 2021 9:33:39 GMT
via mobile
Post by mickthecactus on Nov 1, 2021 9:33:39 GMT
You’re very tiresome aren’t you?
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Brexit
Nov 1, 2021 10:10:26 GMT
Post by mossie on Nov 1, 2021 10:10:26 GMT
The French and the Germans are still sore at us leaving because they miss all our money. As I understand it when we were members we contributed over a quarter of the EU budget, of the 28 countries only 4 were net contributors, all the rest had the begging bowl out. Now there are only 3 paying on while the remainder are still on the take
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Brexit
Nov 1, 2021 10:24:45 GMT
Post by kerouac2 on Nov 1, 2021 10:24:45 GMT
Just for the record, since it is always better to know the exact figures by country. The bars in grey are the most important -- the ones on the right are contributing the most, and the ones on the left are receiving the most.
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Brexit
Nov 1, 2021 11:45:51 GMT
via mobile
Post by mickthecactus on Nov 1, 2021 11:45:51 GMT
Very interesting. What year is it?
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Brexit
Nov 1, 2021 12:13:14 GMT
Post by bjd on Nov 1, 2021 12:13:14 GMT
I just found this: "In 2019 Germany's contributions to the budget of the European Union was 25.82 billion Euros, the highest of any EU member state. France was the next highest contributor at 21 billion Euros, followed by Italy at 14.96 billion Euros and the United Kingdom at 14 billion Euros. The country which contributed the lowest amount was the small island nation of Malta, at 110 million Euros."
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Brexit
Nov 1, 2021 12:16:22 GMT
Post by onlyMark on Nov 1, 2021 12:16:22 GMT
Supermarket shortages FranceStock Exchange - "In Paris, the French stock market tumbled by more than 2%, while shares fell in Germany, Italy and Spain by more than 1%." www.theguardian.com/business/2021/aug/19/european-stock-markets-covid-support-shares-pandemic-central-banksI could go on but it's not worth continually showing that whatever is made as a point for the UK is also happening and has happened in Europe. Stock market, imports. exports, supply chain problems, unfilled jobs etc etc etc are not unique to the UK no matter how many times it is tried to be connected with Brexit and it's just the UK suffering because of it. Nope, wrong. Yet again. If you are trying to give the impression that Europe is booming whilst the UK swims in the cess pool of its own making, hard luck. Just not true. Whoever is, is flogging a dead horse there but are too blinkered to understand and realise that. Any paperwork the EU doesn't want to do that is imposed by the UK to export to us is a mirror of the paperwork imposed by the EU for the UK to export to them. Naivety to want to put bureaucratic hurdles in front of us to get our goods to the EU market but feel it is only right and proper that the EU can export to the UK without it and complain like small children when it is done. We wanted out, we are not in the shit (no matter how biased and uninformed you are as opinions are not facts), any shit we might be in is the same as being suffered also by the EU countries, hence can be dismissed as common and not unique, and as for eating, contrary to popular belief, we have very good home grown food, we are eating well and it is very tasty thankyouverymuch. It is an outrageous fortune for us not to be be in the EU and suffer the slings and arrows of the EU discontent and machinations from within. To be in or to be out, that was the question which we answered resoundingly and we are now living life on our own terms. Beware of jealousy. It is the green-eyed monster which doth mock the meat it feeds on.
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Brexit
Nov 1, 2021 12:17:49 GMT
Post by kerouac2 on Nov 1, 2021 12:17:49 GMT
Very interesting. What year is it? I think that was about seven years ago.
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Brexit
Nov 1, 2021 12:20:00 GMT
Post by kerouac2 on Nov 1, 2021 12:20:00 GMT
This is from 2018.
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Brexit
Nov 1, 2021 12:30:40 GMT
Post by onlyMark on Nov 1, 2021 12:30:40 GMT
Taking K2's first graphic reveals something interesting. For all the money paid into the EU by a country, the question is, what do they then get back in one form or another? Germany gets back 62% of what it paid in. Italy gets back 67%. The UK got back a lot less at 58%.
France got back 67%. Two thirds of the money they contributed came back to them. For the UK, just over half. Make of that what you will but it is quite clear France benefitted financially a lot more than the UK and adds grist to the mill of those in the UK who felt aggrieved at the EU financial arrangements. I don't think K2 intended when posting that to make that point, he was addressing another, but statistics are fickle creatures that conceal more than on first look, they reveal.
Look at the second graphic and it is even more skewed in favour of France regarding the size of the squares for what was paid out and what came back. The France one looks nearly equal compared to the less than half for the UK. France is almost getting a free ride. No wonder they were against us leaving. It probably meant less money for them taken from our contribution.
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Brexit
Nov 1, 2021 15:24:27 GMT
Post by kerouac2 on Nov 1, 2021 15:24:27 GMT
You seem to have a warped vindictive mind, Mark. I personally find it completely normal for the richer countries to pay more, just like I find it normal to pay taxes. Do you think the UK was being cheated? France receives by far the highest agricultural subsidies since it provides the biggest amount of agricultural products to the other countries. Perhaps everybody should be starving instead? To be in or to be out, that was the question which we answered resoundingly Definition of resounding 1: producing or characterized by resonant sound : RESONATING 2a: impressively sonorous b: EMPHATIC, UNEQUIVOCAL51.89% does not fit my own personal definition of resounding.
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Brexit
Nov 1, 2021 17:45:13 GMT
via mobile
Post by whatagain on Nov 1, 2021 17:45:13 GMT
I could not agree more on paying more taxes the more we earn.
I just would like to have a say at how my taxes are being spent, but it is another story.
If you don't help the poor, then they stay poor and eventually you will be spending money to build walls to keep them away.
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Brexit
Nov 1, 2021 18:46:09 GMT
Post by onlyMark on Nov 1, 2021 18:46:09 GMT
Definition of resounding 1: producing or characterized by resonant sound : RESONATING The issue resonated with the majority of those that bothered to vote. That's good enough for me. Splitting hairs never won over anyone in any discussion. You seem to have a warped vindictive mind, Mark. Flattery won't get you anywhere either. You make it sound like a bad thing. vindictive - "having or showing a strong or unreasoning desire for revenge." Macron. warped - "(of a person) having ideas that most people think are strange or unpleasant" Macron.
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Brexit
Nov 1, 2021 19:02:19 GMT
Post by mickthecactus on Nov 1, 2021 19:02:19 GMT
Crikey! Calling Mark warped and vindictive seems a bit rich, you and your Belgian mate.
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Brexit
Nov 1, 2021 19:12:35 GMT
Post by kerouac2 on Nov 1, 2021 19:12:35 GMT
I see that Jersey has started to cave in. They are particularly furious because although they are controlled by the UK, they were not allowed to vote about Brexit. (Then again it is probably their fault for not being part of the EU. What's the expression? Having your cake and eating it too?)
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