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Brexit
Sept 5, 2019 20:58:07 GMT
via mobile
Post by Kimby on Sept 5, 2019 20:58:07 GMT
All I can say is Britain is giving the US a run for its money in the worst government contest.
That doesn’t make me feel any better, BTW.
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Brexit
Sept 5, 2019 21:17:43 GMT
Post by lagatta on Sept 5, 2019 21:17:43 GMT
If she were still a girl, I'd see Marine more as a rugbywoman.
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Brexit
Sept 6, 2019 1:56:08 GMT
Post by mich64 on Sept 6, 2019 1:56:08 GMT
Cheery, being on this side of the ocean observing, I just thought the leave side (at the beginning of the debate/vote) thought they would leave with some sort of a deal/arrangement for all sides concerned. Sorry to be watching this whole unknown situation happening now on both sides. It surprises me each morning when I open my news apps/twitter.
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Brexit
Sept 6, 2019 5:23:00 GMT
Post by bjd on Sept 6, 2019 5:23:00 GMT
If she were still a girl, I'd see Marine more as a rugbywoman. I see her more as a wrestler. I just reread an article about Boris Johnson in the NY Review of Books. It was written before he became PM. The article describes his whole attitude to life as being a member of the English elite who wants to show how much he belongs by not taking things seriously, his columns (usually made up at the last minute) for the Telegraph purposely making the EU sound like Monty Python's Ministry of Silly Walks just for the fun of it, his well-known evasiveness - aka lies, his deliberate persona of anti-dandyism is carefully cultivated. The last sentence of the article, by Fintan O'Toole,is "When things are too serious to be contemplated in sobriety, send in the clown."
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Brexit
Sept 6, 2019 6:08:41 GMT
via mobile
Post by whatagain on Sept 6, 2019 6:08:41 GMT
I had an interesting discussion with an English friend. Belgians are allowed to comment since we are basically in the same kind of less. We didn't vote for Brexit but voted for implosion and cannot even have a government.
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Brexit
Sept 6, 2019 6:09:25 GMT
via mobile
Post by whatagain on Sept 6, 2019 6:09:25 GMT
But I like bojo the clown. We will leave on the date with a deal. Oops we won't have a deal. We will leave on the date whatever. Oops we will remain. Now I suppose he thinks he will get overwhelming support in the next elections. Oops ?
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Brexit
Sept 6, 2019 6:35:14 GMT
Post by onlyMark on Sept 6, 2019 6:35:14 GMT
bjd, I recently read his book - "Heroic Failure: Brexit and the Politics of Pain." Very scathing of Boris and very scathing of the UK as well. It may be simple minded to say that his nationality seemed to bias him to a certain extent against England and I remember being somewhat cynical about his connections between what happened in the past to how things are today. He seemed to think people voted to leave because we have dreams of Empire.
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Brexit
Sept 6, 2019 10:33:03 GMT
Post by kerouac2 on Sept 6, 2019 10:33:03 GMT
Boris might be regretting the fact that he renounced his American citizenship last year.
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Brexit
Sept 6, 2019 10:53:11 GMT
Post by questa on Sept 6, 2019 10:53:11 GMT
The only voices heard around here talking about UK are financiers wringing their hands over 'will we lose billions of dollars' and cricket fans wringing their hands over 'will we lose the Ashes'.
Watching UK implode is no longer top of the pops. Too long a performance, characters over dramatic, plot unbelievable and too much off stage noise. Could be shortened and re-written as a Tragic Opera.
If you prefer humour, see the clowns in the Australian Parliament. PM and Opposition leader are like the old Punch and Judy show...all it needs is a policeman.
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Brexit
Sept 7, 2019 18:41:59 GMT
Post by lugg on Sept 7, 2019 18:41:59 GMT
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Brexit
Sept 11, 2019 5:07:40 GMT
Post by bixaorellana on Sept 11, 2019 5:07:40 GMT
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Brexit
Sept 11, 2019 8:57:46 GMT
Post by bjd on Sept 11, 2019 8:57:46 GMT
Could one of the Brits on here please explain this business about whips? I read "He has lost the whip" but have no idea what it means. I thought the party whip was the guy who told party MPs how to vote but this seems to be something else.
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Brexit
Sept 11, 2019 13:51:20 GMT
Post by questa on Sept 11, 2019 13:51:20 GMT
The MPs are sheep, the whip is the sheep dog, rounding them up and pointing them in the right direction, giving a nip at the heels if needed. Woof!
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Brexit
Sept 11, 2019 15:18:31 GMT
Post by kerouac2 on Sept 11, 2019 15:18:31 GMT
From what I understood in recent days, when you lose the whip you lose the support of your political party and any hope of being nominated by the party for an election.
Of course this does not really clarify the meaning of the word "whip" in a political context.
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Brexit
Sept 11, 2019 18:03:02 GMT
Post by bjd on Sept 11, 2019 18:03:02 GMT
That makes more sense in the recent context. Previously, I would have agreed with Questa's definition but in the past few days the use of the word whip seemed to change.
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Brexit
Sept 11, 2019 21:33:30 GMT
Post by lugg on Sept 11, 2019 21:33:30 GMT
Yep mixed meanings and I am not even sure if I've got it correct but as I understand it ...
Whip in terms of voting for motions in parliament/ organising the business = Questas explanation. "The Whip" is a document that sets down the business for the next week or so of parliament. This is then supported by "The Whips" and "Chief Whips" whose role is to understand the mood / coerce the MPs of a party to vote in a particular way. ( Whips are not just part of the majority party but are also appointed for other parties ) The level of the pressure varies according to the level of opposition to the motion ...( one , two and three line whips) so a one line whip means an MP does not have to be present or vote in parliament but a 3 line Whip means that MPs should toe the party line and be presentand vote as instructed. Of course this is also impacted by the level of majority so if there is a small majority / hung parliament even more important. Some votes are free - ie MPs can vote as they see fit
In terms of the recent MPs who have defied BOJO and who have consequently lost "the whip" - this means they have lost the Tory party's support and thus would not have it if they choose to stand in any forthcoming elections.
However a number have said they will defy this and stand anyway ( in this case they would be standing as independents). Then it is down to the voters to approve or not.
Does that make any sense at all ?
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Brexit
Sept 12, 2019 6:10:03 GMT
Post by bjd on Sept 12, 2019 6:10:03 GMT
Yes, thank you, Lugg.
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Brexit
Sept 12, 2019 10:19:49 GMT
Post by lugg on Sept 12, 2019 10:19:49 GMT
The plot thickens as now through an appeal the Scottish court have ruled that the extensive prorogation is unlawful and designed to thwart parliamentary debate about Brexit. This has led to some suggesting Bojo lied to the Queen. Anyway it now goes to the supreme court and in the meantime parliament cannot sit.
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Brexit
Sept 12, 2019 10:58:47 GMT
via mobile
Post by patricklondon on Sept 12, 2019 10:58:47 GMT
On the "losing the whip" point: What makes this unusual is that in the past it has been used only sparingly and mainly for MPs who've done something personally disgraceful, rather than those who found themselves at odds with the leadership on a particular issue. Traditionally the Tories have seen themselves as a "broad church"; the Brexiteer MPs who organised themselves to vote against Theresa May's deal didn't have the whip withdrawn (nor did their predecessors who gave John Major such grief over the Maastricht Treaty). For them now to do it en masse against so many (and so many former grandees) of the more moderate and compromise-ready tendency is unprecedented. In the past it was usually understood that disagreeing on one issue didn't mean they wouldn't support the leadership on everything else in the usual way. Also, apparently it was made brutally clear to the 21 that they hadn't only lost the parliamentary whip, they were no longer considered party members in the wider sense. AIUI the Tories' membership is traditionally decentralised to their local associations, so I don't know how these MPs' constituency officers are going to take it. My blog | My photos | My video clips | My Librivox recordings"too literate to be spam"
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Brexit
Sept 12, 2019 11:21:06 GMT
Post by lagatta on Sept 12, 2019 11:21:06 GMT
Isn't lying to the Queen seen as disgraceful?
Is there nothing similar to a party whip in the US congress? Perhaps he or she (the person) has a different title. Someone who enforces party discipline (to various degrees).
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Brexit
Sept 12, 2019 14:18:04 GMT
Post by patricklondon on Sept 12, 2019 14:18:04 GMT
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Brexit
Sept 12, 2019 14:29:40 GMT
Post by kerouac2 on Sept 12, 2019 14:29:40 GMT
Does the majority still believe that the UK does not need a written constitution?
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Brexit
Sept 12, 2019 23:47:01 GMT
Post by lagatta on Sept 12, 2019 23:47:01 GMT
Patrick, perhaps you misunderstood me. We have pretty much the same system as the UK, though we are a federal state. Though nowadays the UK has elements of that as well, in terms of the Celtic nations. I was asking (mostly friends here from the US, or people familiar with their system) if they have something equivalent to the whip, or whipping, and another word for the person and the action. This makes me think of the original House of Cards, and the US version thereof.
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Brexit
Sept 13, 2019 15:28:05 GMT
via mobile
Post by patricklondon on Sept 13, 2019 15:28:05 GMT
I see. Yes that would be interesting to know. I have some difficulty understanding the US sense of "the party" (as distinct from the passing show of presidential candidates), especially since, AIUI, members of both US Houses make and sustain their individual personal reputations on the legislation they're involved in originating. Whereas at Westminster (at least until these recent Brexit debates and decisions) the government sets the agenda and drafts the legislation,and their authority depends on being able, on a continuing basis, to command the majority that will allow them to do so. Likewise the opposition parties expect their members to vote the party line. And it's always been considered a big liability if the government's seen to lose its authority, and/or the opposition is too disunited to look like an alternative government. My blog | My photos | My video clips | My Librivox recordings"too literate to be spam"
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Brexit
Sept 13, 2019 15:47:19 GMT
Post by lagatta on Sept 13, 2019 15:47:19 GMT
Yes, we have a Westminster-Parliamentary system. Perhaps there is no such thing as a whip in the US Presidential system. And France?
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Brexit
Sept 13, 2019 18:54:56 GMT
Post by bjd on Sept 13, 2019 18:54:56 GMT
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Brexit
Sept 13, 2019 20:30:39 GMT
Post by kerouac2 on Sept 13, 2019 20:30:39 GMT
Oddly enough, when you consider that fact that a trade union strike in the US means that no member of that union may work, there is no such thing in the political parties. The whip of each party will try to whine and wheedle recalcitrant members to vote the party line, but there is nothing they can do about it if the members vote otherwise. That's why the "southern Democrats" acted like junior Republicans on many votes. That's because ever since the Civil War, the Republican party was officially anathema to anybody in the South. Little by little at the end of the 20th century, they got over it and many became the Republicans that they had been in their hearts all along.
France tries to be strict about following party lines, but some votes are left open. In most cases, someone who votes against the part will get a stern reprimand and in a few cases be expelled from the part, so I guess it is quite the same as in the UK in that regard.
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Brexit
Sept 17, 2019 13:55:53 GMT
Post by lagatta on Sept 17, 2019 13:55:53 GMT
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Brexit
Sept 20, 2019 12:34:48 GMT
via mobile
Post by mickthecactus on Sept 20, 2019 12:34:48 GMT
Thanks to more positive talk about a deal, the Sterling Euro rate has been rising and I’ve just changed my money for my trip to Spain on October 1. Done better than I would have done a few weeks back, indeed the rate this morning gave me 8 more euros than yesterday.
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Brexit
Sept 21, 2019 7:20:39 GMT
Post by questa on Sept 21, 2019 7:20:39 GMT
Bali has scores of money changers all offering about the same rates. You can do deals with them if you have AUD or or USD Established jewelry shops may exchange money but beware the lads sitting around calling out "Change money, Mister" (even to women). They are masters of sleight-of-hand. The currency notes are very similar and have many zeros. Rp 1000 = 10cents, Rp 10.000 = $1 US, Rp 100.000 = $10 and so on until your fist is full of notes up to millions. A full stop divides the thousands which confuses those used to a comma, and the notes are usually tatty.
I arrived in Bali to open the cafe the next day. I was carrying a large (Legal)amount of cash to pay for the lease. It was 9pm Christmas Eve and general mayhem everywhere as the locals have 3 days of holidays and I was worried about being robbed. "No worries" said my 'fixer', "It is all arranged". He took me to the major silver and gold shop in our town. The proprietor had said he would keep my money in his big safe until Tuesday if I agreed to exchange with him at a good rate. This worked out fine for both of us, but I had to ask, why Tuesday?
Apparently, because Indonesia is ahead in time of the major stock exchanges of the world, they don't know what is going to happen globally so they are extra cautious about exchange rates over the weekends. If the US dollar were to do something dramatic they could be left with big losses, so they give relatively poor rates Monday and Friday to cover the possibility.
More useless information from Questa!
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