Have you ever thought of having your DNA tested?

[bixaorellana]

Oooooo ~ what kind of shop is it?

It would be really cool if you showed up there one day and she just somehow "knew".

[htmb]

The cousin makes natural skin products. She’s young, in her twenties, but her shop is housed in the former home of her grandfather. She’s a pretty distant cousin, and seems to be related through my one non-Italian grandparent whose family has been in the US since the 17th century. That’s the French, Dutch, German connection. Anyway....as I said, I’m finding this fun and fascinating.

I have my appointment at the Italian Consulate very soon to request recognition of my Italian citizenship. I’ve gathered as much documentation as I could find, had it all certified and translated into Italian, and now it’s wait and see time. I’m picturing a very officious little Italian man whose head explodes after he gets a peek at my mother’s information. She was quite the wild child.

[fumobici]

Italian citizenship? That's a really big deal!

[bixaorellana]

I'm in awe of Htmb going through all the accumulation of data needed to get that citizenship. I'm pretty sure I'm eligible. It's not so much about getting the Italian citizenship that interests me so much as the fact that it's part of the European Union. Like I could afford to live in the EU, ha ha.

[kerouac2]

Bulgaria is quite reasonable.

[bixaorellana]

Would I look fetching in a head kerchief?

[htmb]

Gathering and processing the documents has been a lot of work, and I’m still missing a few. I have some alternate information that I hope will suffice. I have been unable to locate my grandparents’ marriage certificate (they eloped in 1916), so have certified copies of the 1920 and 1930 census instead. The fact that I was adopted and Florida still permanently seals records was the biggest pain of all, and getting those records certified was the biggest expense. My older sister was a big help because she lent me our grandfather’s original naturalization certificate, and also filled in some of the gaps. Plus, there is a wonderful young man who lives in Sicily and will act as an intermediary between the client and various government offices. He was able to get a copy of my grandfather’s birth certificate after I had no luck.

I must give credit to Kerouac for suggesting I find a good online support group rather than telling me my idea to pursue citizenship was crazy. It turned out to be a wonderful tip as I found a super organized and established (closed) group via Facebook, full of knowledgeable and experienced people willing to share. Now, after 18 months of waiting, it will be up to my local consulate to decide if I have a case. From what I understand they can do one of a few things:
1. Accept all my paperwork for review.
2. Refuse to accept my case.
3. Accept my paperwork, but require more documentation within a certain time period.

Even if everything is accepted, they can still come back to me later and deny my petition. It also may take up to two years before I have a final decision.

Anyway, since this information has been posted by me in the DNA thread, I’ll mention again that I wouldn’t have known I was the grandchild of three Italian immigrants if I hadn’t been matched with close cousins and a sibling through DNA testing. It’s been an interesting and enlightening process, to say the least.

[kerouac2]

My brother got tested by 23andme and his results are just about identical to my first results from MyHeritage, as they should be if we are really brothers. Madame Crazy is prominently displayed in his results. (I sent it all to her.) He has other people on his list, too, which is also normal since the main three competing companies cannot really expect everybody to test all three, so they only get partial results. My brother seems to have more Americans on his list than I do. Most of my results are American, too, but also with a significant number of Europeans. I assume this is because MyHeritage has advertised more in Europe. I got some new "distant cousin" matches the other day, from Germany.

[bixaorellana]

Absolutely fascinating, Htmb, even as it confirms my perception that getting it all done is an enormous pain. A question: you wrote ~

Feb 9, 2020 14:25:56 GMT htmb said:

grandfather’s original naturalization certificate

My eligibility would be based on four great-grandparents, none of whom (as far as I know) were ever naturalized. It had been my understanding that the ancestor's naturalization was a minus rather than a plus in gaining Italian citizenship for oneself. Not true?

Most people who get DNA tested report a few surprises. I imagine that adopted people need to be prepared to be astounded at the results.

[htmb]

If the naturalization happened after the child (in this case, my mother) was born outside Italy then it isn’t a problem. In my case, having the certificate is a good thing. For one, I don’t have to get documentation from all over the place proving my grandfather did/did not naturalize. My mother was born in 1928 and my grandfather didn’t naturalize until 1944, so my mother still carried her Italian citizenship. His naturalization didn’t change that for her. However, until after 1948, Italian females couldn’t pass citizenship on to their offspring. Because I was born after 1948, that shouldn’t be a problem for me. BUT, there are still other hoops to jump through and much of the long wait after the meeting will be because the consulate will be checking with other consulates to make sure my mother never formally renounced citizenship.

[htmb]

Basically, Bixa, you’d need to pick the great-grandparent with the clearest line and only go through him/her.

Also, just for the information of anyone else reading this, the Italian government will not allow the use of DNA testing to prove citizenship (at least not in any regular, non-court, case I ever heard of). Thus, even though I know the identities of my biological father and his immigrant parents, and I can prove a DNA connection, the Italian government could care less. His name is not on my birth certificate.

[bixaorellana]

But more importantly, have you noticed an increased appetite for pasta and red wine?

May I ask where the grandparents were from? (we could be cousins!)

[htmb]

Maternal grandfather was from Bari; paternal grandparents were from Salerno in a town near Pompeii.


Here’s one of the first YouTube videos I found helpful. It details how citizenship is passed through generations.

[bixaorellana]

That is very cool to know, although it lessens the possibility of our being relations. Have you/will you visit those towns?

Thank you for that video, which totally makes things clearer!

[htmb]

I spent several weeks in Italy this past fall. Half the time I was on a tour of southern Italy and our bus drove right past the town where my maternal grandfather was born. I could see it in the distance. His history is fairly clear and I’ve been able to build a decent family tree for that side of the family. I have his baptismal certificate, too, as well as a carbon copy of a letter he wrote the mayor of his home town in 1958. I also visited Pompeii, so was near where my paternal family is from. I’ve had a more difficult time researching them. None of my DNA nieces/cousins seem to know any family history and the last name is a very common one for the area. Kind of like the Italian version of Smith. But, yes, I do plan to go back.

[bixaorellana]

Well, at least you now know where your magnificent hair probably came from.

[htmb]

It was supposed to be Scottish hair.
It’s funny now, looking back at pictures of me up until the age of about seven, I looked like a little Italian waif straight out of a Ferrante novel. All those years, I never had a clue I was Italian.

[whatagain]

If you are Italian you certainly had family who went into Belgium!

I had a copy of my birth tree going back to 1600 something.

I threw it away and blocked the guy who was researching it on Facebook. Wearing the same name and having a common ancestor dont make us friends imo.

Apparently a part of my family went to the US and there would be about a 100 distant cousins there. My godson is friends with some. On fb.
Poor guys can't imagine how they pronounce our name (Flemish and complicated).

I only did once a DNA test when my wife was pregnant. Our daughter had a genetic variant and before calling it an anomaly we were both tested. I have the same variant so j am definitely the father of at least one of my children !

[bixaorellana]

Even though I completely understand the various reasons why people want to do DNA testing, I sort of subscribe to what my mother says about it:
"I'm happy enough knowing what I think I am".
(my mother is the same woman who once pointed out to us, her children, that we are "half-breeds" )

[htmb]

I was extremely fortunate. I was adopted into a family with parents who loved me and provided me with a secure home and a very good life. I wouldn’t trade my adoptive parents for anyone else. They were my true parents. But unless someone has been in a situation similar to mine and has no sense of blood heritage, no clue of family history, certainly no knowledge of family medical information, I don’t see how there could be much understanding of the situation that drove me to seek DNA testing. It’s doubtful I’d have been tested otherwise, unless there was a good reason involving health. And I don’t think I would have done it if my adoptive parents had still been alive because hurting them would have been the last thing I’d want. Finding my biological family has been an eye-opening experience for me. Much of the information I’ve learned has been challenging to process. Part of the reason I’m applying for dual Italian citizenship is to turn a somewhat crazy situation into something more positive. I’m very grateful to have found my maternal siblings as well as close relatives on my paternal side. While they were all blinded-sided by my appearance on the scene, each and every one has been very nice and accepting. But.....it’s been very complicated.

For sure, DNA testing sometimes reveals surprises, and I would encourage anyone going through the process to brace themselves for unanticipated news.

[bixaorellana]

Oh, Htmb ~ I hope I didn't sound flippant or dismissive about testing in general! I feel sure that in your position, I would have been compelled to do exactly what you've done.

[htmb]

Not a problem, Bixa. I was just venting my general frustrations with the system.

[htmb]

I have managed to discover a good bit about my maternal Italian grandfather’s side of the family through relatives and records, but I know little about my paternal Italian side. Both grandparents on that side were most likely born in the Naples area, but it’s been hard to gather specifics. My grandfather’s last name was extremely common and it’s been difficult to follow links to possible relatives. However, I was just informed of a DNA match with a 2nd-3rd cousin who appears to live in Italy. I’m guessing the link is through my paternal side and I’ve written to see if I can make a connection. It would really be nice to receive a response.

[deyana]

They keep having updates on Ancestry!

Now my kids only have 5% Indian each.

[bixaorellana]

Cross-posting this to the eBook thread ~

2019 PEN/E.O. Wilson Literary Science Writing Award Finalist
"Science book of the year"—The Guardian
One of New York Times 100 Notable Books for 2018
One of Publishers Weekly's Top Ten Books of 2018
One of Kirkus's Best Books of 2018
One of Mental Floss's Best Books of 2018
One of Science Friday's Best Science Books of 2018
“Extraordinary”—New York Times Book Review
"Magisterial"—The Atlantic
"Engrossing"—Wired
"Leading contender as the most outstanding nonfiction work of the year"—Minneapolis Star-Tribune

                      www.amazon.com/dp/B075PVZRQ1
                     

[onlyMark]

Anyone ever done one of those DNA tests? I think this question came up before maybe. I did one recently for the reason that due to information from extended family on Facebook my ancestry became quite confusing. My ancestry on my father's side really, my mother's side is all English.
Following is the result.
The majority DNA being English is expected due to my mother (who had purely English ancestors for several generations) and the English ancestors on my father's side. The rest is somewhat muddled but I can trace ancestors from those regions that are not too far removed from me.
The French DNA seems sort of missing but I do know my French ancestors were from the centre and south of the country, so there could be an overlap there.

According to family lore, which has been confirmed by others researching this, I could well be heir to a French Chateau from the times of the Revolution plus I am certainly descended from Venetian Nobility.

[whatagain]

I could not care less who my ancestors are.
So no test for me.

[bixaorellana]

Nov 15, 2023 12:42:10 GMT onlyMark said:

I could well be heir to a French Chateau from the times of the Revolution plus I am certainly descended from Venetian Nobility.

Had I known that, I would have been a lot nicer to you.

Because of genealogical interest, I know that ancestors on my father's side came from England, Scotland, Ireland, France, and the Netherlands. My mother's grandparents came from Sicily, which means there could be dna from France and North Africa also, at the very least. Anyway, that makes me a true American mutt and my son even more so, with his German and native American ancestry from his father's side. His partner had her dna tested and my son's comment was, "She came out as pure English. How is that even possible?!"

[onlyMark]

Nov 15, 2023 15:00:16 GMT bixaorellana said:

Had I known that, I would have been a lot nicer to you.

You took me for lunch! That's good enough to me. I'll permanently reserve a guest room for you in the Chateau.

[bixaorellana]

*fluffs panniers*         *adjusts tiara*