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Post by kerouac2 on Nov 27, 2017 20:58:31 GMT
Obviously, this thread deserves a bit of explanation. Ever since last year's trip when Bixaorellana, Htmb and I met up to see a bit of Mexico and particularly to celebrate Muertos in Oaxaca, we had been wondering about future adventures since the trip went brilliantly well. The Anyport meet-up in London in June was excellent, but it was well trodden territory for many of us, so a new experiment was in order. A lot of us have always wanted to go to quite a few exotic places, but various factors tend to prevent us from doing so. Money, and work and family obligations tend to top the list, and that is entirely normal and as things should be, but there is that other factor known as apprehension that often stops us cold and prevents us from doing some of the things we most want to do. Anyport could be a factor for like minds to unite and finally organise reasonable adventures to amazing places that have seemed out of our reach.
I had already been to Havana once, 20 years ago, and it was a rather pitiful trip -- just look at the report I made -- since I was quite limited by not knowing the language and also the fact that going to Cuba was a bit more complicated in those days. Bixa had never been there before but was very attracted to the idea, and on top of that she could communicate without difficulty.
So we began researching the possibilities. Transportation was not a problem at all, so we concentrated on accommodations. We didn't want to stay in a hotel, particularly when it became apparent that a vast number of apartments are available and would provide much more freedom and comfort. Bixa can explain her research on the subject, since it was extensive and vigourous. It was also not as simple as it seemed to be at first. There are lots of places advertised on the net, but that is easier said than done. Cubans do not have the same access as we do to the internet, so this entailed waiting for a reply much longer than we are used to. Most of the apartments were on multiple listings, and the owners or agencies would check requests just once a day, and would then have to cross check multiple requests. The result was that Bixa was repeatedly told that the very nice apartments that she had seen were not available.
As for my own utility, it was quite limited but not entirely absent. Bixa would consult me regarding specific locations, and I had retained a general knowledge of good locations versus bad locations. In fact, however, almost every location proposed was either "good" or "not bad" because the owners, at least on the internet, knew where visitors to Havana wanted to stay.
I'll let Bixa expand on this subject a bit later since it might be useful for other potential visitors, but I know that you are waiting for some pictures, so I will begin.
For people who fly out of smaller airports, you might be amused (or amazed) by the departure board that greets you when you arrive at Charles de Gaulle airport in Paris.
s19.postimg.cc/qsfckgpzn/Cuba_007.jpg
Check-in was rapid, and I was quickly in my departure lounge. I kind of love modern airport architecture.
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My flight left 2 hours late and arrived 2 hours late and lasted more than 10 hours, so you will excuse me for arriving in a daze. Bixa had arrived hours earlier, but, stalwart that she is, was waiting for me as was the taxi driver that we had booked. Taxis to and from Havana airport cost a standard rate of US$25 but most drivers will only ask for US$20 or even less if you book ahead of time. Of course if they have been waiting 2 hours extra (even though they are used to it), for some reason you will give them US$25 anyway. Go figure.
The apartment owner was also waiting for us 2 hours more than planned. The place used to be his principal residence, but now he lives in a beach town not far from Havana. The actual apartment turned out to be a source of considerable amusement and dismay, which we will soon explain, but we loved it on first sight. It was in a modern building on a higher floor, just one block from the seafront. Perfect! It was kind of hard to get rid of the chatty owner, but finally he left and we were able to admire the view at our leisure. The street below -- Galiano, but officially Avenida de Italia -- was a source of constant fascination. It was active, perhaps too active, from 5 a.m. to 2 a.m. every day.
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A large hotel in slight decline, the Deauville, was just a block away.
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Even when there are noisy people, the streets are not filled with traffic in most of Havana.
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I didn't sleep much -- I was too excited by our new location, so I was ready to admire the first dawn in the apartment just a few hours later.
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Post by bixaorellana on Nov 28, 2017 1:01:15 GMT
Thanks to Kerouac for starting off the Havana reports. He has mentioned some of the practicalities, and we'll try to cover those in threads dedicated to those aspects of travel. In the meantime, I hope questions will be forthcoming. This was an awfully interesting enterprise in the sense of two adults traveling together & not only taking in a foreign country, but also having to remain conscious of the preferences and comfort of the other person over an almost two week period. I think we can pat ourselves on the back for not only pulling it off, but even enjoying it all. Kerouac goes into detail in his first paragraph about why non-related people might/should/can consider traveling together. I would say that a major benefit in visiting a country such as Cuba -- a visit which raises as many questions as it answers -- is the pleasure being able to discuss what one is seeing. One of the hardest things for me in opening my comments on this thread is how to relay "impressions of Havana". Really, the first couple of days I sort of treaded water, just taking it all in. The utter crumbling and broken face of Havana's center is such a powerful image that an effort must be made to get past that and all the questions it provokes. Also, the people are not altogether the smiling, endlessly friendly music-making souls of the popular tourist image. They may have been at one time, but the rather dire economic situation has made them somewhat inturned, for want of a better word. More on whom we met and what we learned from them later, but my final thought as I left Havana was that I would love to take a short breather, then turn right around and go back to really dive in and learn more. At any rate, to take up the narrative ~ Arrival & departure point
Since we arrived at night, we were eager to get out and see things the next day.
Note the little sign to the right of the open door. That indicates the householder has rooms or apartments for rent ~
Crossing Havana's Prado ... ~
... and getting a glimpse of another word ~
The old cars we've heard so much about, in every state of repair ~
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Post by lagatta on Nov 28, 2017 1:22:31 GMT
What is the beautiful old (by New World standards) building in mint condition?
Was it only the two of you? I'd find a meetup of three or more people easier.
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Post by kerouac2 on Nov 28, 2017 6:33:10 GMT
I'm not sure what that building is, but Bixa might remember. It looks to me like it might be next to the Hotel Sevilla at the entrance to Habana Vielha, where many of the buildings have now been beautifully renovated. |
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Post by bjd on Nov 28, 2017 7:02:22 GMT
This is great. Havana is a place I would really like to go. And I just finished reading a book by Leonardo Padura, a Cuban writer, set in contemporary Havana, where people talk of the crisis of the 1990s (after the fall of the USSR and its funding to Cuba), the new Cubans out for what they can get vs the older generation who does not dream of going to Miami but wants to stay in Cuba, the food and corruption problems...
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Post by mossie on Nov 28, 2017 8:18:38 GMT
With my old work hat still jammed on my nut, I am appalled at the state of the roads and paths, then notice the buildings are crumbling as well. I realise the country is a basket case, but some effort could be made. Idlers?
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Post by amboseli on Nov 28, 2017 8:23:35 GMT
Following this topic with very much interest!
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Post by kerouac2 on Nov 28, 2017 11:19:12 GMT
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Post by bjd on Nov 28, 2017 12:04:35 GMT
With my old work hat still jammed on my nut, I am appalled at the state of the roads and paths, then notice the buildings are crumbling as well. I realise the country is a basket case, but some effort could be made. Idlers? I don't think the people are "idlers", Mossie. There is a problem with countries where there is a lack of private ownership. If a place is not yours, why bother fixing it up? Furthermore, as you say, the economy is and has been for years, a basket case. Hence a lack of raw materials for doing work. Besides, if you earn $10 a month, wouldn't you rather spend it on food than on cement? And the hot and humid climate is not so good for buildings. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2017 13:38:27 GMT
I am so enjoying this report. I am sure I will have a gazillion questions. The buildings do seem quite decrepit but the streets/road appear to be in better condition than ours in NOLA. As noted by Bixa, the people do not appear to be very cheery and have a sad and exhausted look of near despair. Where were the majority of the tourists from? Kerouac's picture of the lone chair immediately had me thinking, "I'll bet Bixa eye-balled that chair and was thinking of ways to get it back to Oaxaca and was already envisioning how she would reupholster it"  As for traveling companions I much prefer only one other person and or going solo. More than two always seems to get way to complicated and by the end of the holiday there is at least one person I never want to see again. Looking forward to more good people. |
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Post by kerouac2 on Nov 28, 2017 14:27:35 GMT
Where were the majority of the tourists from? Good question.
The statistics from 2010 say this:
Canada 945,248
UK 174,343
Italy 112,298
Spain 104,948
Germany 93,136
France 80,470
Mexico 66,650
US 63,046
Argentina 58,612
Russia 56,245
However, I am sure that things have changed since then, since there was a huge cruise ship in the port every day, something that did not exist in 2010. There were clearly very many Spanish speaking tourists (as indicated by the Spain-Mexico-Argentina mention on the list), but there were also lots of English-speaking tourists and quite a few Japanese and Chinese tourists. My Air France flight out of Paris was full of Russians and Poles in addition to the usual French, Dutch and Germans. We encountered some nervous Americans who had booked their trip under the Obama rules and were worried about getting in trouble under the Trump rules. But at the airport, there were flights from Miami, Charlotte, Atlanta, New York, etc. -- yes, I know that most of the passengers are Cuban-Americans.
That leaves Varadero, of course, which is the main beach resort in Cuba with direct flights from Europe and other places. People go there for the beach and the cocktails and generally ignore the country. Except for helping the local economy, one might wonder whether they should even be counted as having visited Cuba.
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Post by bjd on Nov 28, 2017 15:13:14 GMT
What you say about flights to Varadero is why we still haven't gone to Cuba. I am not interested in going to a big hotel and sitting on a beach. And when I looked, it was really difficult and expensive to do it alone with a flight to Havana.
Perhaps it's easier now, with Cuba opening up more.
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Post by bixaorellana on Nov 28, 2017 15:47:25 GMT
I am so much enjoying all your comments, not least because some of them echo what I was thinking during my visit. The desire not to jump to conclusions was an interesting challenge while there, and I'm hoping that amongst the membership and guests here we might get some insights. This is great. Havana is a place I would really like to go. And I just finished reading a book by Leonardo Padura, a Cuban writer, set in contemporary Havana, where people talk of the crisis of the 1990s (after the fall of the USSR and its funding to Cuba), the new Cubans out for what they can get vs the older generation who does not dream of going to Miami but wants to stay in Cuba, the food and corruption problems... Bjd, we talked about you while there as a person who would definitely be intrigued by Havana. I'd really like to read the book you mention. We did run into a 35-year-old who was as much of a committed Fidelista as the oldsters and who waxed eloquent about the glory years of USSR support. Of course the glorification of that along with blaming everything on the embargo begs the question of how a small island nation was planning on taking care of itself after the revolution. This is not at all to put down socialist ideals nor to say that the pre-revolutionary corruption and exploitation was a good thing. I realise the country is a basket case, but some effort could be made Mossie, of course that thought passed my mind, too, which is one reason I'd like to go back and dig deeper into the history and its effect on the people. Obviously, I'd also like to cross the country & see Santiago de Cuba on the other end of the island. Also, not to be forgotten in the discussion of "decrepit" is the effect of the Miami Cuban communty's insistence on embargo, no dollars, no American tourists and all of that nonsense over the years. On our last day, we had a short conversation with the lady taking care of our apartment about that. She was appalled by a cousin in Miami who supported Trump and just shook her head over Mario Rubio, not understanding how he could have no feeling for his Cuban background. Was it only the two of you? I'd find a meetup of three or more people easier. Just we two, LaGatta. Remember that we've not only known each other online for a long time, but traveled together with Htmb in France and in Mexico, As for traveling companions I much prefer only one other person and or going solo. More than two always seems to get way to complicated My impulse is to agree with you, Casimira, although if the opportunity presented itself, I'd like to see how traveling with a small compatible group would work out. re: Kerouac's comments ~ I wouldn't characterize the nice couple we met as "nervous Americans" so much as people who shared my (I think justifiable) paranoia about getting in trouble with a loony administration over our innocent trips. Anyway, on to some more photographic impressions ~ This noitcelfer is from the borderland between Havana Vieja (fixed up) and Havana Centro where we stayed ~
I think taken on the Malecón ~
Wrought iron, both old and new, was always creative ~
I tried to capture schools whenever we came across them ~
The sign says that religious articles are sold there, with Santería followers apparently the targeted clientele ~
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Post by bixaorellana on Nov 28, 2017 16:01:13 GMT
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Post by whatagain on Nov 28, 2017 16:13:19 GMT
Stange I can see Bixa's pics but not Kerouac's...
I am in complete disagreement with those who think it is complicated to go on his/her own to Cuba. Except for political problems of visa that I don't know about since I'm not concerned, but we went to Cuba in 2001 (young and beautiful) and it was super easy.
Don't let you being stopped ! Cubans are lvoely people, we felt very safe (hope it is still the case), it was one of our best trips ever.
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Post by kerouac2 on Nov 28, 2017 16:25:08 GMT
On my first trip 20 years ago, I felt that Cuba was the safest country that I had ever visited. And my impression was exactly the same on this trip.
It really makes you question yourself. How can people who are so incredibly poor in our eyes have absolutely no interest in trying to take anything away from the rich visitors, either through scheming or theft? Apparently they have a totally different mentality about such things, which I have not encountered in any other country in the world.
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Post by bjd on Nov 28, 2017 16:30:22 GMT
Meyer Lansky is mentioned several times in the novel I mentioned above! The author is Leonardo Padura, title La neblina del ayer. The French title is something like The Fogs of the Past. The main character also appears in some earlier detective novels set in Havana, which I have read too, both in Spanish and French.
I'm looking forward to your practical comments about going to Cuba, Bixa and Kerouac. And to the photos, of course.
I shouldn't have said "complicated" I guess. It is of course feasible, but I'm cheap and found it expensive to not go on a package deal. My daughter and her husband went to Cuba 3 years ago and stayed in people's houses. They found having to pay $5 per person for breakfast was a lot. And they speak Spanish and are used to travelling. They were not allowed to get on some buses, told that they were only for Cubans and that they had to go on special tourist buses, etc.
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Post by onlyMark on Nov 28, 2017 16:32:39 GMT
Bixa, was it apparent when you spoke Spanish there that you weren't a local? Did they detect an accent, Mexican or otherwise, and asked you about it?
Mrs M learnt her Spanish in Colombia but in Spain they think she is from Mexico.
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Post by bjd on Nov 28, 2017 16:36:50 GMT
Mark, I'm sure they realized Bixa's Spanish was different. My son-in-law learned to speak Spanish in Argentina and had some problems understanding Cubans. My daughter did better with her Ecuadorian-learnt Spanish, but she is better at languages.
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Post by kerouac2 on Nov 28, 2017 16:37:23 GMT
It should be mentioned that Cubans do not stamp American passports. The "visa" that everyone requires is just a piece of paper available from any travel agency or airline -- stamped when you enter the country and stamped a second time when you leave, and retained by the authorities. Most Americans enter Cuba through Canada or else places like Cancun. The main annoyance faced by Americans is not being able to use their cards from American banks. Bixa watched me longingly as I went to numerous ATMs to get money directly out of the machines rather than having to carry around a shitload of cash. Of course, if you bring cash, you would no longer want to bring US dollars, which are now subject to an additional 10% exchange fee "just because they can." Euros are the preferred currency for changing money, followed by the Canadian dollar and yet the convertible peso (CUC) is almost exactly on par with the American dollar.
As for the language, Bixa quickly discovered that just like in all of the other Spanish speaking countries, there are some totally different words for different items. Not really a problem because people were able to tell her the "correct" word most of the time.
You will probably be surprised by the amount we spent on private accommodations when we get around to that. And we never bought the breakfast that the private apartments proposed, although I would have been curious to see what it would have been. |
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Post by kerouac2 on Nov 28, 2017 16:58:04 GMT
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Post by mich64 on Nov 28, 2017 17:17:08 GMT
Enjoying this immensely, thank you both for your insights and photographs so far!
I found Cuba unique in so many ways in comparison to other countries we have gone on holiday to. My thoughts often returned to an internal struggle (not just as a country but for individuals) of wanting to progress but maybe a deeper want to go further back in time. The older I get, I feel more and more the understanding of my parents when they say "things in the olden days were simpler, better." And I think the Cuban people feel that even stronger. Just my impression.
I think what it difficult to fully comprehend is that there is not a supply of everyday goods to purchase and even if there were, many do not have extra income to spend on anything else besides necessities. For example, toilet paper. We brought some with us, and were thankful we did! When you take a bus tour, we knew to bring some with us, as when part of the tour was stopping at a locally owned restaurant for lunch and drinks, when leaving it is a normal thing to use the toilet before continuing the tour, NO toilet paper provided. There were even signs posted to make you aware. Even the bright new shiny tour bus had a bathroom but they would not unlock it, we found out later it is because they do not have septic dumping sites.
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Post by cheerypeabrain on Nov 28, 2017 18:48:52 GMT
Glorious, it's interesting to see two different views of the same trip. I love the pops of bright colour...and even where buildings are crumbling they still look incredible. Look forward to seeing and reading more from both of you. Excellent.
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Post by kerouac2 on Nov 28, 2017 21:57:40 GMT
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Post by bixaorellana on Nov 28, 2017 23:07:03 GMT
Cubans are lvoely people, we felt very safe (hope it is still the case), it was one of our best trips ever. Would love to hear more about that, Whatagain. In contrast to everything I've been told or have read, it sort of seems that generally people in Havana were much less jolly than their reputation would have it. Cuba could have been "saved" in the 70's by a flood of American tourist dollar I see your point about that, Huckle, and agree that the US's stance is asinine. However, the crazy conspiracy theory part of my brain wonders if there weren't some collusion between the two countries to maintain the face-off status quo. Castro's ongoing self portrait as David to the the brutish Goliath certainly stood him in good stead. Since I live in a state that uses tourism as a mainstay, I'm very leery of that. After a while the populace seems to forget that there should be far more options than continually marketing themselves and their home as a tourist attraction. My daughter and her husband went to Cuba 3 years ago and stayed in people's houses. They found having to pay $5 per person for breakfast was a lot. And they speak Spanish and are used to travelling. They were not allowed to get on some buses, told that they were only for Cubans and that they had to go on special tourist buses, etc. Most interesting, Bjd. I wonder if the thing about buses was really true, or a scam. The $5 dollar breakfast seems to be the norm, but it's not compulsory to order it when renting directly from Cubans. Also, that is a complete breakfast, not a skimpy "continental" version. Five bucks also seemed to be the norm for a full breakfast almost everywhere else, although the in-house ones appeared more ample. Bixa, was it apparent when you spoke Spanish there that you weren't a local? Did they detect an accent, Mexican or otherwise, and asked you about it? Mrs M learnt her Spanish in Colombia but in Spain they think she is from Mexico. Ha, Mark -- I didn't have to even open my mouth to be taken as a tourist, as it seemed everywhere we went we were assumed to be visitors. We joked that they could tell I wasn't local because I don't wear my clothes several sizes too small. (I believe Kerouac has a stash of photos showing the local sense of feminine style.) But yes, people were often pleased that I spoke Spanish and some asked where I was from. I think what it difficult to fully comprehend is that there is not a supply of everyday goods to purchase and even if there were, many do not have extra income to spend on anything else besides necessities. Mich, we remained nonplussed by the general paucity of goods and variety. In fact, we often went into stores in order to marvel at the difference between the ones there with what we're used to. As far as spending power, that is something else that I don't feel I understand. On a Saturday the streets and stores were crammed with people shopping. A local person told me that the Habaneros have a knack for seeing a need and filling it in order to make money, as in addressing shortages in that city by going somewhere else in order to bring in those items to make a profit, for instance. Look forward to seeing and reading more from both of you I hope you're still saying that when all the threads are done. We have a daunting number of pictures! Trailing along in my poky way with pictures allows Kerouac to go first with explanatory text & saves me some work. 
Some bits and pieces ~
The parks and public spaces in Havana are quite pleasant and seem to be a magnet for teachers and their charges,
often with the kids participating in rather fun athletic activities organized by the teachers.
Moseying over to the waterfront ~
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Post by bixaorellana on Nov 28, 2017 23:17:18 GMT
A familiar figure to us Gulf Coast kids, it turns out d'Iberville is buried in Havana ~
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Post by kerouac2 on Nov 29, 2017 5:50:41 GMT
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Post by lagatta on Nov 29, 2017 8:12:09 GMT
The schoolchildren certainly look happy though.
One thing I keep seeing is PARTS of otherwise crumbling buildings fixed up and repainted.
Siesta cat makes me think of someone I know (virtually) through other friends who is very involved in stray rescue. Cats and sometimes dogs are often dumped at her place, though I know animal overpopulation is certainly not restricted to Cuba. One advantage Cuba has over other poor countries is that there are a lot of veterinarians who can handle spay and neuter, as in general there are a lot of qualified (but underemployed or underpaid) medical professionals there.
Bixa, I'm sure I'd look like a nun or missionary to Cubans. The women, and not only the young women, in the photos my friend K who travels there often takes, all seem to be in very tight and skimpy clothing, even for the climate.
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Post by kerouac2 on Nov 29, 2017 11:10:19 GMT
There was a very active neutering programme in Havana with numerous dogs wearing little tags indicating their status. In any case, the dog and cat population of the city seemed to be extremely high, and most of the animals seemed to have homes and were well fed.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2017 13:59:20 GMT
So many great photos. ( I remain fixated on K's stairwell pic with the bicycle, positively iconic!!)
The wrought iron designs and styles are so creative and so much of a departure from the traditional
ironwork one sees here everywhere.
Yes, I have never seen the Gulf look so choppy and wild. (It must have been hard to believe that this is the same body of water you grew up by in Mississippi Kerouac!)
This may be a really dumb question but, who are the people portrayed in the mural? And, what is the history on it?
Also, any story or whatever of the wrought iron woman's head?
Man, MSR. Iberville certainly did get around din't he? (I was able to translate enough of the French text to garner enough info on him).
Sorry for all the gazillion questions guys.
Oh, as an aside, I remember talking with a woman back during "the summer from hell" when my husband was so sick and the Drs. seemed to be spinning their wheels.
This woman told me that had he been treated in Cuba the Drs. there would have nailed it right away and given him the best of care.
Something that most people would ever guess was the case.
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