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Post by Kimby on May 10, 2021 20:23:13 GMT
You aren’t going to convince most Americans to give up their guns at any price. As they say “you’ll get my guns when you pry them from my cold dead hands!”
Best we can hope for is sensible regulations.
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Post by mickthecactus on May 10, 2021 21:18:03 GMT
Cold dead hands.
Very apposite.
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Post by Kimby on May 11, 2021 1:51:40 GMT
My dad was a hunter and a gunsmith who built at least one gun from scratch, carving the stock himself.
When he died my sister and I had to dispose of 17 weapons, mostly hunting rifles and shotguns but several handguns that he kept for protection (and as far as I know, never had to use as such). She found a retired lawman who resells guns for a living,and within a matter of months had turned our 17 guns into about $7000 cash, after his commission.
I’m sure Dad would not have surrendered his firearms for cash. They were family heirlooms (his grandpa’s rifle, for example), and sporting equipment.
But people like my dad aren’t the problem. It’s the criminals who use guns in their criminal activities. Or the psychopaths who take pleasure in killing others or at least scaring the shit out of them.
Background checks are essential, but they only catch legal sales. I think ammunition could be taxed really high to make it harder to get, but people have been hoarding ammo for years already. Red flag laws, where police have to investigate when a family member reports concern about someone with access to guns, would help. And any gun used in a crime should be confiscated and melted down.
But registering guns to an owner would be really helpful, though 2nd amendment folks view that as a precursor to confiscating their guns. It’s a really thorny problem.
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Post by bixaorellana on May 11, 2021 2:57:06 GMT
Legal guns get stolen all the time.
Many mass shootings are carried out with legal weapons -- maybe those weapons did not belong to the shooter, but he got his hands on them anyway. And pretty much anyone with no alarming history can go get a gun legally. That person, who has no prior criminal history, can then use the gun. Why does someone who doesn't need a gun (that's pretty much everyone) want the damned thing? There must be at least some latent intent to use it.
Anecdotal evidence about law-abiding citizens who keep guns for hunting or because they're enthusiasts don't really have a bearing on the situation in the US, which is completely out of control. If giving up great-great-great grandpa's still functional Revolutionary war firestick prevents a single school shooting -- hell, any shooting -- isn't it worth it?
Why is there mousing around about the damned guns? We already know there are too many out there. We already know how much gun violence there is in our country. Other countries don't have an entire populace armed to the teeth. I guess it's similar to the shit lack of a medical system in the US -- "we've always done it this way".
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Post by bjd on May 11, 2021 6:16:23 GMT
Not only are the guns a problem in the States, the huge numbers sent south of the border also contribute greatly to gang and drug violence in Central America.
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Post by fumobici on May 11, 2021 14:57:29 GMT
You aren’t going to convince most Americans to give up their guns at any price. As they say “you’ll get my guns when you pry them from my cold dead hands!” Best we can hope for is sensible regulations. Wait, I kind of like the "cold dead hands" thing. Maybe we could explore that idea more.
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Post by kerouac2 on May 11, 2021 15:05:32 GMT
Every now and then, one needs a president who is willing to go against public opinion and stick to his guns (oops). François Mitterrand was elected president in France 40 years ago yesterday. 63% of the French were in favour of capital punishment, but he said he would abolish it, and he did. Three months later, it was signed into law. 369 votes in the national assembly for abolition, 113 against.
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Post by Kimby on May 11, 2021 17:09:11 GMT
The problem in the US is that the majority who support some regulation of guns are not the same people as the rabid 2nd amendment folks. And the minority is packing heat, for the express purpose of thwarting a tyrannical government.
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Post by kerouac2 on May 11, 2021 17:39:24 GMT
I absolutely understand that living in Montana makes it seem impossible. But if the most progressive states started taking very firm action to ban guns, it might finally start gaining ground if the subsequent crime/murder statistics showed that it worked.
Of course now I'm wondering if the unexpected cancellation of the "citizens arrest" law in Republican Georgia will have any influence on the other 49 states.
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Post by fumobici on May 11, 2021 21:46:22 GMT
Gun control can't be done regionally in the US, there are no border controls at all between states. Effective legislation will have to be done at the Federal level here to see any positive effects.
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Post by bixaorellana on May 11, 2021 22:34:39 GMT
Absolutely agree. We have seen with the pandemic that states with strict controls were undercut by those with lax or no controls. The state borders are mostly just lines on maps, so anything affecting the country as a whole should be dealt with by the federal government. This crap of throwing it back to the states is analogous to facebook's recent attempt to make another entity do the right thing re: Trump.
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Post by kerouac2 on May 12, 2021 2:54:50 GMT
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Post by bixaorellana on May 12, 2021 3:00:51 GMT
Gun control can't be done regionally in the US, there are no border controls at all between states.
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Post by kerouac2 on May 12, 2021 3:03:25 GMT
I remember border checkpoints in California for fruits and vegetables.
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Post by bjd on May 12, 2021 9:53:22 GMT
Weren't there crimes dealing with crossing state lines?
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Post by kerouac2 on May 12, 2021 11:08:31 GMT
That makes it a federal crime.
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Post by kerouac2 on May 12, 2021 11:11:52 GMT
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Post by fumobici on May 12, 2021 13:59:45 GMT
I remember border checkpoints in California for fruits and vegetables. Yeah, and all you have to do is look at a map and detour around the controlled border crossing to circumvent those. There are only sixteen of them for the entire state and hundreds of open, uncontrolled alternate routes. It would be like trying to do effective border controls between France and Germany or Belgium (or, say topically, NI and the RoI) today, hopeless without spending metric shit tons.
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Post by kerouac2 on May 12, 2021 14:31:19 GMT
My stepfather was the sort of basic conservative American who owned a handgun for "protection." When I emptied the house, I put it in the storage box with the ammunition for my brother to collect when I should have probably binned it. But my brother is the sort of person who probably reacted with surprise and delight when he discovered it (Christmas and birthday all rolled into one!). He is harmless (famous last words) so am not too worried.
Anyway, back to my stepfather, whose military past was so ingrained in terms of respecting rules and laws that my mother and I regularly shocked him with some of our minor shenanigans. If ever any state had made a law saying that it was illegal to transport any sort of firearm across state lines, he absolutely would NEVER have broken such a law. Are there no Americans like that left?
As for smuggling, etc, it has always existed and will always exist. But making absolutely no effort to control the circulation of weapons is not exactly going to solve the problem.
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Post by kerouac2 on Jun 12, 2021 16:39:45 GMT
Is Biden really trying to create an anti-China coalition at the G7? That would be so so so stupid.
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Post by casimira on Jun 15, 2021 17:16:31 GMT
Couldn't believe my eyes when I saw Biden greeting Queen Elisabeth for the first time wearing aviator sunglasses. Just saying...
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Post by kerouac2 on Jun 15, 2021 17:54:04 GMT
The breach of protocol was duly noted by the European press.
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Post by casimira on Jun 15, 2021 18:00:06 GMT
Here too to some degree. I would love to see him with mirrored aviator sunglasses when he meets Putin. My sick sense of humor... The whole thing is a joke in my opinion or as K2 would say, 'frankly".
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Post by bixaorellana on Jun 15, 2021 18:13:56 GMT
Tempest in a teapot. People often forget they're wearing sunglasses. I frequently have to apologize when I realize I've forced someone to talk to me while my eyes are obscured.
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Post by casimira on Jun 15, 2021 18:22:20 GMT
I agree. 'Twas simply amusing in that this is what the main stream media chose to highlight.
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Post by mickthecactus on Jun 15, 2021 18:33:40 GMT
Tempest in a teapot. People often forget they're wearing sunglasses. I frequently have to apologize when I realize I've forced someone to talk to me while my eyes are obscured. I’ve seen the Katherine Hepburn glasses...
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Post by bixaorellana on Jun 15, 2021 18:53:50 GMT
Are those the ones you used to call the Marilyn Monroe glasses? Lo, how the Mighty Me has fallen!
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Post by Kimby on Jun 15, 2021 19:53:50 GMT
Legal guns get stolen all the time. Many mass shootings are carried out with legal weapons -- maybe those weapons did not belong to the shooter, but he got his hands on them anyway. And pretty much anyone with no alarming history can go get a gun legally. Sorry to threadjack by returning to guns, but registration of guns, like we register our cars and trucks (which are only a little less lethal), would be a very good start. If a crook breaks into my house and steals my registered gun (not that I have a gun anymore, a thief stole it), I would need to report it as stolen and my liability would be eliminated if it was later used in a crime. And if it was later found by police, I might actually get it back if it were registered. One way to make guns less dangerous would be to make ammunition much harder to get. However, that horse has also left the barn as gun nuts and “preppers” have stockpiled enough ammo for 100 mass shootings a day from here to eternity. But NEW gun owners would have a harder time turning their guns into lethal weapons. Carry on.
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Post by mickthecactus on Jun 15, 2021 20:09:44 GMT
Are those the ones you used to call the Marilyn Monroe glasses? Lo, how the Mighty Me has fallen! Yes! Those are they. Sorry for the change of actress..
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Post by mickthecactus on Jun 17, 2021 9:53:37 GMT
Biden is noticeably taller than Putin.
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