Musée de la Marine - National Naval Museum - Paris

[kerouac2]

There are actually five national naval museums in France:  Paris, Brest, Rochefort, Toulon and Port-Louis.  I have been to the one in Brest, which I already found impressive, but this was my first visit to the one in Paris.  It was created in 1752 and was housed in the Louvre for many years.  It moved to its current location in the Palais de Chaillot across from the Eiffel Tower in 1943. That seems like a very strange time, since other things were happening in France at that time, but it was all planned in 1937 when the Palais de Chaillot was built.  Three museums were planned for that space, and they are all still there today.

I decided to go there for two reasons: 1. I no longer go to enough museums while living in one of the museum capitals of the world, and I decided to do better this year.  2.  The Naval Museum closed for renovation in 2017 and just reopened in November 2023, so I knew it would have all of the latest technological advances.

I went there this morning about 15 minutes after opening time.

There was plenty of space already before getting to the ticket desk.

There was about a 5-minute wait to get a ticket.

And then I was in.

[kerouac2]

Obviously in a place like this, you are going to see a lot of models of ships. But that's one of the things I came for!









Lots of progress has been made since ancient times.





A lot of the models were made just to pass the time at sea.

[bixaorellana]

Can't wait to see more! I adore models of all sorts, but especially of complicated things like ships.
What do the tags on the rowers (galley slaves?) mean: "thalamite" and "zugite"?

Good for you for resolving to get out to see more museums. The problem with being in a place with lots of culture, etc. is that it's too easy to think you'll just get around to it in some nebulous "later".

[kerouac2]

Jan 14, 2024 23:01:27 GMT bixaorellana said:

What do the tags on the rowers (galley slaves?) mean

I didn't find as much information about this as I would have liked, since obviously I didn't read the labels on every display. However, thalamites were the lowest rank of rower and were placed down the closest to the water, zugites ranked in the middle, and thranites were the top rank. I also saw that most of them were not slaves, POWs were sometimes used, and finally slaves when there was a severe manpower shortage. I would assume that slaves were not very motivated rowers, and I kind of doubt that whips were used as much as movies would have us believe.

Before I forget, I should mention something that was indicated at the entrance, almost as an apology. The museum covers mostly navigation in the Western world, but it is pointed out that Chinese and other Eastern cultures had an equally massive sailing culture.

[kerouac2]

There were many screens to explain navigation&l routes. I saw that 90% of the goods of the world are still transported by sea, which is something that we tend to blithely overlook.



There were many shipwrecks.









Ships and boats were a constant source of inspiration to artists.





Lightships were as important as lighthouses in early times.



Before GPS, there was a lot of navigation work to do.



Not all compasses were boring.

[kerouac2]

The lenses of lighthouses are fascinating.









There were still many shipwrecks, usually in storms.







I'm sure this museum would love to get its hands on Géricault's Raft of the Medusa, but it's not going to happen!



Apparently shipwreck dramas used to be a major theme in theatres.



Recognise him?

[bjd]

Why oh why? They spend a bundle to make a beautiful museum and then have a terrible translation error on one of the labels!! A shipwreck on a "roadstead"?? Rade means harbour.

[mickthecactus]

It’s very reminiscent of the National Maritime Museum Greenwich. If anybody is in London it’s well worth a visit.

[onlyMark]

Jan 15, 2024 3:54:09 GMT kerouac2 said:

However, thalamites were the lowest rank of rower and were placed down the closest to the water, zugites ranked in the middle, and thranites were the top rank.

Because of the picture showing a different arrangement I had a quick look on the internet and realise even now and with something as simple as who was who, there are still three theories as to their positions.
They are named due to height above the water, position from the middle of the ship to the edge as in the photo or even three groups of rowers situation stern, middle and bow. You'd have thought it would be known for sure by now.

Jan 15, 2024 8:42:36 GMT bjd said:

Why oh why? They spend a bundle to make a beautiful museum and then have a terrible translation error on one of the labels!! A shipwreck on a "roadstead"?? Rade means harbour.

Just asking a peculiarity of language about this - would you in French say you were 'in' a harbour or 'on' a harbour? (sur = on?)

[bjd]

Interestingly, the word havre, harbour is now considered archaic or regional. The quotations I found say "dans un havre", in a harbour. Most of the citations said "un havre de paix" because of its meaning of a safe, protected place, rather than a general port or harbour. Which is why the museum display calls it a "rade".

Of course, there is the city of Le Havre.

[kerouac2]

According to Google:

Traduire "rade" en
Anglais
noun
1. roadstead

No, I have never seen that word either.

[kerouac2]

Shipwrecks of course lead to scavenging.













Ever wondered what was used by those seafarers to bring back plant and animal specimens?





Underwater fashions change over time.

[onlyMark]

"For sailors, roadsteads are sheltered stretches of water near the shore where it is possible to safely drop anchor."
"A roadstead is a body of water sheltered from rip currents, spring tides, or ocean swell where ships can lie reasonably safely at anchor without dragging or snatching. It can be open or natural, usually estuary-based, or may be created artificially." - Wikipedia.
New one on me as well.

[bjd]

Thanks for that, Mark. When I lookoed at the translation of "rade" on WordReference, the first word that came up was harbour. I guess my marine vocabulary is not specialized enough.

[fumobici]

Those ship models are astonishing not only for their detail but their accuracy, the rigging is all there and all correct. I've never seen shipwreck models before, very cool.

That Galaup fellow seems to have sailed right by my neighborhood without dropping in to say hi, although to be fair Cook (and anonymous Spaniards probably even earlier) had already gotten the honors.

[kerouac2]

I suppose Bonaparte put the most money into the Navy.



a litle decoration off stern of a ship







employment available







This is Charlemagne. I know nothing of his naval activities, if any.



I bet that naval cadets learn the names of all of these people, but I hope they at least have some multiple choice questions on the exam.

[kerouac2]

The was a special chamber for figurehead design. Some of them are made out of wax, which requires special storage conditions.





These places are a major challenge for blind visitors, but here they had least had a few things that visitors could touch.





This cloak is not from a Star Wars movie but was for protecting and warming shipwreck survivors.



Life vests have also changed over the years.





Brittany particularly had a lot of religious events for people going to sea.



This was a very remarkable room of oversize paintings.



Heave a sign of relief for the invention of photography.





Using a lot of sky probably made the job a little easier.





Bordeaux has not changed a bit, except that the port is no longer at this location.



The old port of Marseille also looks the same except that the boats are more organised now.



This is a stone marker for a royal forest domain reserved for ships' timbers.

[whatagain]

Great report. Looks nice.

[bixaorellana]

Wonderful report with superb pictures! I love how much stuff you captured, too. Nothing is more frustrating that being told you're going to get to look at something, and then to get nothing but a tiny teaser, as often happens with newspaper articles.

Lately I've been forced to don my marine raincoat quite a few times because of the weather. But now I want that sleek & stylish black and red number worn by the mannequin next to the green and white fishing trawler(?), research vessel(?).
The cork(?) life vest looks singularly uncomfortable, but probably did its job.
In another sartorial exhibit:

Jan 15, 2024 17:24:29 GMT kerouac2 said:

This cloak is not from a Star Wars movie but was for protecting and warming shipwreck survivors.

What a difference from the mylar sheets used for that purpose now!

Jan 15, 2024 17:24:29 GMT kerouac2 said:

There was a special chamber for figurehead design. Some of them are made out of wax

Were the wax ones actually put to use on the prow of a boat, or were they models from which to copy something more durable?

That model of the shipwrecked galleon with the divers and sharks is something else!

Every bit of carving in that museum -- the marble, the wood, the wax -- is so beautifully wrought.

Jan 15, 2024 4:34:46 GMT kerouac2 said:

I'm sure this museum would love to get its hands on Géricault's Raft of the Medusa

Coincidentally, I'm reading a book with a character whose masterwork is a critical book on that painting.
The paintings in this museum are a treasure trove, even without the Medusa. This thread warrants multiple visits. There is so much to take in and the paintings certainly need studying.

I want some Fresnel lenses to dress up my house and garden!

Jan 15, 2024 8:53:57 GMT mickthecactus said:

It’s very reminiscent of the National Maritime Museum Greenwich.

Mick, you may not have seen my coverage of that museum, since it's not in the museum board.

[kerouac2]

Besides sinking other ships, these probably helped one's own ship to sink under the weight when the hull was breeched.





Even if you have heard of hardtack, it is pretty awful to think that this was about 80% of sailors' diets. One nickname for them was "worm castles."



This was about the full extent of medical tools on these ships.



Except for of course the amputation tool. Forget about anesthesia.



Naval battles were intense. Even though we have seen swashbucklers jumping from ship to ship in movies, we never really believed it.





Steamships were a modern innovation.



And we finally made it to modern military warfare.



Swabbing the decks will probqbly never go away. I even saw it on my cargo trip to Finland.



finally room for a sailors' mess, even if it is not yet gourmet cuisine

[kerouac2]

Jan 16, 2024 3:57:15 GMT bixaorellana said:

Were the wax ones actually put to use on the prow of a boat, or were they models from which to copy something more durable?

Those were just preliminary models.

[kerouac2]

My stepfather having served in the navy all his life, I know that a lot of the activity is just "busy work" to keep from getting bored.



In the second half of the 20th century, there were improvements to the tableware for the sailors.



The captain's cabin has always been nice.



In 1967, Charles de Gaulle made his (in)famous State visit to Canada by military vessel. He had better tableware.



helicopter carrier



This must be the Charles de Gaulle, the nuclear aircraft carrier.



On the flight deck, each crew member wears immediately identifiable clothing depending on the function.



There were a lot of simulators to keep the little ones busy. They were in heaven.





The cabins for crew are for six people. There is really not much space.



Before exiting through the gift shop, I glanced back at the massive volume of the museum space.



I thought this was a far more interesting gift shop than most.





You can even buy some groceries here, but I did not see any hardtack.







a slightly differnt take on the traditional striped jumpers, using the museum logo



All of the old men (except me) seemed to be very attracted to these sailors caps.

I found the museum to be quite crowded by the time I left, but I did everything wrong by going on a Sunday morning. It was clear that it is the time when all of the divorced fathers take their kids out before going to McDonald's, so the kids were running wild. There were also families with children age 4 and younger. They found the place interesting for 15 minutes, and then they had to be coaxed and prodded to continue, sometimes quite energetically. If I return, I will go mid-week when the kids are in school. Then I might be able to see a few of the audiovisual displays.

I left at lunchtime, and there was absolutely no wait to get in.



The beginning of this little video shows some excerpts of the little Imax film in the entrance.

[htmb]

Jan 15, 2024 12:20:32 GMT kerouac2 said:

According to Google:

Traduire "rade" en
Anglais
noun
1. roadstead

No, I have never seen that word either.

The painting is from 1831. Could that particular translation date back to then also?

[kerouac2]

I'm sure it's a recent translation. There was no reason to translate things back in 1831 because French was still the dominant language in Europe in those days.

[mich64]

Great report Kerouac. Perfect time of year to search out the many museums available right around you. I do enjoy spending some time in the gift shops that you have to pass through at the exits and have purchased some things. Enjoy your return visit.

[mickthecactus]

Yes, first class report. Thanks!

[htmb]

Jan 16, 2024 15:06:02 GMT kerouac2 said:

I'm sure it's a recent translation. There was no reason to translate things back in 1831 because French was still the dominant language in Europe in those days.

Ah, excellent point!

Interesting report, too. I have only had time to glance through briefly. Hoping to spend more time later. Is this museum in any way closely connected with the museum on Place de la Concorde? Hotel de la Marine?

[kerouac2]

No. While the Hôtel de la Marine was the site of the Ministry of the Navy for about 200 years, it no longer has any naval connections. However, it does have connections to its original function, which was as the national furniture depository -- some of the fancy things have been moved back from the current depository at Gobelins to the Hôtel de la Marine. The other stuff there is mainly a Qatari art collection (the Al Thani collection) and various temporary exhibitions.

[bixaorellana]

Wow -- what an experience! The Imax film, from what the video shows of it, seem the perfect way to start a visit to the museum. It brings home how the seas were there before us, will be there after, and are full of things we'll never know.

I really love that painting of the sailors' mess hall.

The color and symbol coded clothing for the flight deck of an aircraft carrier makes you wonder why that wasn't always the norm everywhere, perhaps even not only on boats.

I did not notice the museum logo until you showed the sweaters. It's a perfect design! I have to ask: if you didn't get me a Fresnel lens, you did pick up one of the sweaters for me, right?

Really, really enjoyed this report. Thank you!

I do hope you go back on a really slow day and get a chance to use the simulators. They seem to be designed for explanation at the adult level, not toys for kids.

Edited to say that this non-French speaker has decided to weigh in on the rade/roadstead question which has already distracted too much from this very rich report.
I used to live near Hampton Roads, Virginia, so long ago knew that "roads" could refer not only to land, but to water.
Hampton Roads is named after the Earl of Southampton, a leader in the London Company that financed English colonization in Virginia between 1607-1624. The "roads" refers to a roadstead, a sheltered place where a ship could ride at anchor relatively safe from displacement by strong currents or storms. source
Since somewhere from 30 to 45% of English is derived from French, it's no surprise that both languages used a version of this word in the same way. Far from a poor translation, the museum made a good choice in re-introducing old terms to a modern public.

[kerouac2]

Thanks all.

What threw some of us off is that "rade" is a very common French coastal word whereas "roadstead" appeared out of the blue, although I would imagine that many people who live on ports in English speaking countries have encountered the word. But some of us just know it as the area protected by the breakwater.