|
Post by kerouac2 on Jul 29, 2020 15:42:40 GMT
And I suppose that since he did not use the singular medium, he meant to say that the media refuse to cover rather than 'refuses.'
|
|
|
Post by bixaorellana on Jul 29, 2020 16:31:24 GMT
Oh, I'll be using polices from now on!
|
|
|
Post by questa on Jul 30, 2020 7:44:47 GMT
OK , the Genius Jr has flubbed some words, but maybe he just didn't take the advice of his proof-reader, or editors. I wonder where he learnt that?
|
|
|
Post by lagatta on Jul 31, 2020 1:14:40 GMT
And those Trump boys are trophy hunters, which is a very, very different matter than subsistence hunting for meat, fur (for clothing, not trophies) etc. They strike me as even more dim than daddy.
|
|
|
Post by bixaorellana on Aug 9, 2020 14:16:12 GMT
I despair. This is from a caption in the NYTimes.
At top right, a framed photo of she and her Congressional colleagues.
|
|
|
Post by kerouac2 on Aug 9, 2020 14:24:03 GMT
OMG!
|
|
|
Post by lagatta on Aug 9, 2020 14:35:56 GMT
Not even "she who must be obeyed". Deplorable.
|
|
|
Post by bixaorellana on Jan 17, 2021 23:22:35 GMT
This is a fairly new but tragically widespread error which is being used by many people who should know better. This example was taken from an article in The Guardian by Gary Taubes, a journalist. This is not to single him out, as in a morning's reading I could probably find another hundred examples. There's is a contraction of there is. It is not some all-purpose word that can be used when the sentence structure demands there are. Taube's blunder: "there’s 4,000 of them in this group" Just found another example, by Newsmax chief executive Christopher Ruddy, so a piece of yuck anyway: “There’s a lot of New Yorkers there..."
|
|
|
Post by bjd on Jan 18, 2021 8:56:47 GMT
I find that a very common error in Canada. It always strikes me as being wrong (well, it is wrong) but I do hear everyone use it.
|
|
|
Post by questa on Jan 18, 2021 12:57:36 GMT
One would have to be careful not to fall into the trap of using "there is/are" when referring to a single entity made up of a number of individuals. e.g. “There’s a lot of New Yorkers there..." WRONG should be "There are..." however "There is (there's) a group of New Yorkers here..."is correct.
|
|
|
Post by bixaorellana on Jan 18, 2021 19:54:20 GMT
I find that a very common error in Canada. It always strikes me as being wrong (well, it is wrong) but I do hear everyone use it. That's what makes me crazy -- how quickly a grammatical error takes hold in the sense of bad money driving out good. It's not just Canada and the US, either. If you read The Guardian every day you can find many examples of "there's" used incorrectly. (The Guardian is also amazingly full of typos, but I love it anyway.) As long as I'm in grammatical rant mode, let's move on to another common mistake found even in educated speaking and writing, to wit, using the object pronoun when the sentence structure demands the possessive pronoun: www.cliffsnotes.com/study-guides/english/pronoun/possessive-pronouns-with-gerundsAnd speaking of object pronouns, let's address the common confusion about when to use the subject pronoun I and when to use the object pronoun me. Here is a complete explanation, but I feel my simple test is easier to remember and to apply. That is, when unsure of whether to use I or me, turn it into the plural form and play that in your head. Example: He gave she and I permission vs He gave her and me permission. If you try the sentence with the plural form of the subject pronoun -- he gave we permission and then with the object pronoun -- he gave us permission, it quickly becomes obvious that the object pronouns are the correct choice.
|
|
|
Post by bjd on Jan 18, 2021 20:35:43 GMT
You don't even need to pluralize the pronouns. "He gave she permission" just doesn't sound right because it isn't.
|
|
|
Post by bixaorellana on Jan 18, 2021 21:23:02 GMT
Correct with that obvious example, but consider the widespread use of "between you and I". The reason a trick is necessary to remember how to use the correct form is because too many people apparently never learned or do not understand why a pronoun needs to take the object form.
|
|
|
Post by kerouac2 on Jan 19, 2021 7:55:58 GMT
I don't think correct grammar is difficult at all. The question is who was paying attention in school.
Then there is the influence of peer groups. My brother went through a (mercifully short) phase where he started saying "ain't" a lot. That's what all of the cool kids around him were saying. He didn't understand that the "cool kids" were ignorant hillbillies.
|
|
|
Post by htmb on Jan 19, 2021 13:26:30 GMT
There’s also a question of who had a good education with well-trained teachers. I had terrible teachers between 5th and 11th grades. My math and grammar skills are not as good as they should be and I feel like I’m still struggling to catch up. I would definitely not be recruited for the grammar club.
|
|
|
Post by kerouac2 on Jan 19, 2021 15:14:14 GMT
My grandmother had only 4 years of schooling before going to work in the textile mills ahead of the Great War. But for some reason, she had perfect spelling and grammer, not to mention penmanship. I believe that children were tortured in those days if their handwriting was not beautiful. One thing that certainly helped her grammar skills is that she was an extremely avid reader all her life. She had one sister who wrote just as well, and the two other sisters could make four mistakes per ten words. Some of it is clearly genetic.
I learned to write in French by reading the newspaper every day -- every single one of my French teachers was abominable, while newspapers try to be clear and to the point. It took me much longer to adjust to French literature, which is almost a completely different language a lot of the time.
|
|
|
Post by bjd on Jan 19, 2021 16:24:44 GMT
I think I'm a few years younger than you, Huckle, but I studied grammar in primary school. That was in Canada. But I'm sure that all disappeared shortly afterwards. I think it also depended on the generation of the teachers -- I only remember the older ones teaching grammar. Although I guess many of them looked old at the time.
|
|
|
Post by bixaorellana on Jan 19, 2021 17:19:52 GMT
Htmb, I believe I am @5 years older than you, so was surprised at your account of poor teaching in Florida when you were in school. One thing that I think was a giant accidental advantage for me was going to 1st & 2nd grades and then returning for 11th and 12th grades in the state of Georgia. I learned phonics in the the early grades & later, when my family returned to Georgia & I went to high school, it was evident to me that the kids from Georgia were overall better grounded in grammar & reading skills than kids who had gone to school elsewhere. This was obvious because my classes were composed of the students native to Savannah and of students from the Air Force personnel stationed there. I think I was part of the last generation to learn about gerunds at all much less the use of the possessive with them. Also we were drilled on the use of "less" and "fewer" which seems to escape most writers today. Huckle, I am younger than you, but not a generation younger. I was taught all those things you list, along with diagramming sentences and reading comprehension. Both my parents were fiends for grammar, which of course made me predisposed to pay attention in English class. It may be more of where one attended school & good luck in teachers rather than generational, although I do suspect the quality of education has fallen. My grandmother had only 4 years of schooling before going to work in the textile mills ahead of the Great War. But for some reason, she had perfect spelling and grammer, not to mention penmanship. I believe that children were tortured in those days if their handwriting was not beautiful. One thing that certainly helped her grammar skills is that she was an extremely avid reader all her life. Love of reading is one of the best things that can happen to a person. I think school used to be much harder than it was for any of us here. My grandfather went to a one-room school house in deepest Mississippi, but had gorgeous penmanship and a love for reading and learning. When I was in high school I found some of the textbooks that had belonged to him and his sister. They were way beyond my level -- easily college level textbooks. Of course school being that tough must have left many children behind. I studied grammar in primary school. That was in Canada. But I'm sure that all disappeared shortly afterwards. In line with what everyone has said, I wonder if trying to reach all students hasn't thrown the baby out with the bath water. Of course all needs should be addressed, but maybe the methods used to do that are faulty.
|
|
|
Post by htmb on Jan 19, 2021 17:20:28 GMT
The nuns who taught me in first-through-fourth grades were fairly educated, but I still finished classwork work earlier than the other students most of the time, and was allowed to read the encyclopedias in the back of the room to keep me busy. The nuns in fifth-through-seventh were poorly educated and most likely came from impoverished backgrounds. The school was considered a “mission” in the wilds of rural Florida. Because of them, I barely learned any mathematics during those years. The rest of my time was spent in public school, but I can’t say I learned much. It also didn’t help that I have a cognitive learning disorder. What you might think of as dyslexia. Despite the poor education, I did manage to earn three advanced degrees at a major university, two in the field of education. However, my use of proper grammar remains weak and I’m guessing I’ve probably learned more about grammar by studying French than I ever did studying English. Not that my French is all that good either.
|
|
|
Post by htmb on Jul 13, 2021 14:32:29 GMT
My oldest has returned to college to finish a degree. Today she forwarded an email from one of her instructors and I noticed, in the place where his name was listed, he had also included the words "(he/him)" for his gender. This is the first time I’ve noticed this, though I haven’t been looking. I think it’s a good idea in today”s world of zoom/online classes and meetings, plus the uncertainty about gender designations for some people.
|
|
|
Post by kerouac2 on Jul 13, 2021 14:39:36 GMT
Well, if the instructor is a trans male, I could understand the precision but otherwise, not really.
|
|
|
Post by htmb on Jul 13, 2021 15:02:13 GMT
Easy for you to say. You’re a guy and, in most western countries, your name would be considered as masculine. In the USA, mine is almost always understood as masculine, as well, though I’m female.
If it’s not someone you ever meet in person, how would you know?
|
|
|
Post by bixaorellana on Jul 13, 2021 17:40:16 GMT
Good point, Htmb. Many names are used for both boys and girls, or are names that when spoken can't be distinguished by sex -- Len/Lynne, Joe/Jo, etc.
As far as your daughter's instructor, I believe there has recently been a big push in universities for students to be called by the pronouns of their choosing.* Perhaps the instructor's precision is a result of a school directive.
It will be a cold day in hell before I will refer to a single individual as they/them. If a person does not feel that the he or pronouns are the right fit, thats fine. Just pick something that's not a damned plural.
|
|
|
Post by fumobici on Jul 13, 2021 20:03:53 GMT
Good point, Htmb. Many names are used for both boys and girls, or are names that when spoken can't be distinguished by sex -- Len/Lynne, Joe/Jo, etc. As far as your daughter's instructor, I believe there has recently been a big push in universities for students to be called by the pronouns of their choosing.* Perhaps the instructor's precision is a result of a school directive. It will be a cold day in hell before I will refer to a single individual as they/them. If a person does not feel that the he or pronouns are the right fit, thats fine. Just pick something that's not a damned plural. "They" and "them" are used as a singular pronoun all the time in English. If someone tells you different, they are lying. Don't listen to them.
|
|
|
Post by kerouac2 on Jul 13, 2021 20:11:29 GMT
Is that what they says?
|
|
|
Post by bixaorellana on Jul 13, 2021 20:17:17 GMT
"They" and "them" are used as a singular pronoun all the time in English. Yes. And it's wrong. Notice how often people now say "is" when "are" is correct. Not only is that appalling, I think it's a direct outgrowth of blurring the their/them pronoun, something which happened long before it became a transgender word. I warned everyone, but no one wanted to listen. No, now everyone would rather use fbspeak. Civilization is in tatters.
|
|
|
Post by kerouac2 on Jul 13, 2021 20:20:15 GMT
I'm still fighting the battle of who and whom. (I would add, "yes, I'm talking to you Kimby", but since she is in Iceland, she doesn't have time for such a trivial matter.)
|
|
|
Post by htmb on Jul 13, 2021 21:15:09 GMT
I asked my daughter about the pronouns and she confirmed that all persons at her university - students, faculty and administrators - are now required to sign up for email using gender identity pronouns of choice, as well as personal photos.
|
|
|
Post by bixaorellana on Jul 13, 2021 21:39:41 GMT
Battered & bloody you may be, Kerouac, but correct usage of who/whom is a crucial battle. This is only related to this conversation in the most tenuous sense, but it's something I wanted to share. For those not wishing to read the entire article, this is the gist of it: {Spoiler}... demisexuals [aren't] exactly an oppressed minority fighting for equal rights. They are just people who aren’t sexually attracted to others unless they form a strong emotional bond with them first. (Congratulations, some of you may suddenly have realised that you are not actually the boring hetero you thought you were – you are an exciting demisexual!
|
|
|
Post by lagatta on Jul 14, 2021 0:06:02 GMT
Thank you, bixa, I've found myself! Thought I was just getting on.
|
|