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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 4, 2020 21:37:38 GMT
Obviously, my peeve is minor, but when presidents are sworn in -- James Earl Carter, Barack Hussain Obama -- suddenly their real names appear to have importance.
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Post by htmb on Mar 4, 2020 21:43:09 GMT
And, of course, you must know who would be Captain Kangaroo’s Vice President.
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Post by Kimby on Mar 4, 2020 21:46:53 GMT
Mr. Green Jeans?
Or would it be Bunny Rabbit?
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Post by bixaorellana on Mar 4, 2020 22:20:16 GMT
when presidents are sworn in -- James Earl Carter, Barack Hussain Obama -- suddenly their real names appear to have importance. The novelist Don Delillo says that when you're famous people use all of your names: Martin Luther King, for instance. Not just famous, also infamous: James Earl Ray, Lee Harvey Oswald, etc.
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Post by lagatta on Mar 4, 2020 23:12:48 GMT
Oh well, our neighbours will still be stuck without healthcare and many other social measures. I'm not setting foot there. Makes me sad, though.
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Post by spaceneedle on Mar 4, 2020 23:21:03 GMT
Biden's wins don't susprise me. It will be interesting to see what happens next.
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Post by spaceneedle on Mar 4, 2020 23:35:03 GMT
People are fundamentally conservative, even in social democracies. By this I mean they always want to keep what they already know rather than risking the "unknown." I understand the feeling, which means that a lot of education still needs to be done before attempting to get people to change. But since education is in the hands of biased people, things will not change any time soon. You nailed it K2. Many people are low-information voters and will vote for the person they feel most familiar with, which in this case is someone who was once Obama's VP. Not to say there are not high-information voters either. They watch debates, read tweets/blogs/research etc., but I suspect many of those folx also voted for Biden not out of a genuine sense of support but more from a place of fear that no one else can beat Trump.
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Post by Kimby on Mar 5, 2020 0:39:33 GMT
We need to impress on disappointed young voters - if Biden wins the nomination - that it is essential for Dems to take the Senate to Ditch Mitch and stop the judge packing of our courts.
And especially to win races all down the ballot to position us well for the redistributing that will take place after this year’s census.
Those two issues should take priority over hurt feelings about one’s ideological soulmate not winning.
Same thing if Bernie wins. Us old farts HAVE to support him. Though it will be an uphill climb, IMO, to retake the Senate or state legislatures on Bernie’s coattails.
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Post by lagatta on Mar 5, 2020 0:52:36 GMT
I'm also an old fartess, but live somewhere a public health system is a given, though as in the UK and elswhere, it can be hollowed out by stealth privatisation. The coverage in Montréal is very pro-Bernie, but remember that he is practically a local hero, and we are by far the closest major urban area to Burlington Vt.
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Post by Kimby on Mar 5, 2020 1:51:09 GMT
My sister uses a transportation analogy to talk politics with her idealistic daughter.
If you want to get from Point A to Point B, doesn’t it make sense to take the bus thats going the right direction? Rather than refusing to get on the bus at all. Or worse, blowing it up?
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Post by lagatta on Mar 5, 2020 2:25:56 GMT
The buses would still be segregated with such an approach. And no, Sanders-type social-democrats don't want to blow anything up. I belong to three parties here (NDP, Québec solidaire, Projet Montréal) with pretty much the same outlook and approach).
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Post by fumobici on Mar 5, 2020 3:09:18 GMT
I'm a one-issue voter. If Biden (or anyone else) is the nominee and doesn't then strongly endorse health care as a citizens right, they won't get my vote. If that happens and I get blamed as a result, I welcome that blame. When so many lives are at stake, I only want leaders who are willing to fight the good fight.
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Post by Kimby on Mar 5, 2020 4:20:01 GMT
And no, Sanders-type social-democrats don't want to blow anything up. I belong to three parties here (NDP, Québec solidaire, Projet Montréal) with pretty much the same outlook and approach). The young people I know in Chicago absolutely want to blow up the current government and start over. It’s revolution time, in their minds. Or riot time.
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 5, 2020 4:28:36 GMT
Like when we were young under Nixon?
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Post by lagatta on Mar 5, 2020 4:38:55 GMT
Kimby, do you mean literally blow up as in terrorist attacks, killing and maiming people? I think most people nowadays of any political stripe have seen that such action is harmful and negative. Or just blow up in the sense of getting rid of such absurdities as no cohesive healthcare in a very rich and powerful country? Bravo to the latter. It is utterly absurd for your country, richer per capita than ours (to say nothing of Cuba and several other countries) to have no serious public healthcare.
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 5, 2020 4:44:54 GMT
Americans are pretty good at riots when they set their mind to it, but they seem to just destroy each other's stuff out of frustration. In lots of other countries, they attack government institutions like the parliament, although that is pretty useless, too, since it is not the fault of the building.
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Post by bixaorellana on Mar 5, 2020 4:45:41 GMT
LaGatta, I cannot tell you how much I value your calm, well-reasoned responses right now, as I don't trust myself to respond to some of the crap I'm reading here, both from the blinkered left and the pointlessly panicked middle.
Edited to say that I was not referring to Kerouac's post, that was simul-posted with mine.
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 5, 2020 5:38:41 GMT
I think that everybody's opinion is valid here, and it would be really disconcerting if we all agreed.
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Post by fumobici on Mar 5, 2020 5:47:47 GMT
Thank you, quite right.
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Post by fumobici on Mar 5, 2020 5:52:42 GMT
I'm not a partisan, if the Republicans embraced single-payer universal health care I'd vote for them. But if only the Greens do, that's where I'll send my precious vote. I have no respect at all for any candidate who feels differently and I won't vote for a candidate I don't respect.
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Post by lagatta on Mar 5, 2020 7:12:01 GMT
Well, I don't live in that country (though I live very close to Bernieville) and we already have single-payer health insurance, though with the shortcomings I think people are well aware of in the countries where it exists.
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Post by whatagain on Mar 5, 2020 8:31:07 GMT
Got to dig deeoer but my gutt feeling today is that Biden is abouf as bad as Trump. Bernie looks ok. All of them are so old ... the kind who will say dont listen to Greta Thunberg she is so young she knows nothing yet. When the young ones could say the old have never learned. We need new ways of thinking. Old ways like america first are no longer possible when everythjng is linked. So in the case of US i would vote like in Europe : not for the best they aren't there and i dont expect they could be in a system that is devised to promote people with money and fame.
So. i would vote for the less bad. Right now that would mean bernie. And ordering a pacemaker a walking staff etc.
We are told Coronavirus attacks old people mainly and we produce geriatric candidates. Strange system.
Btw when i say young i mean young. Not 50. 40 or 30. World changes so fast we need people who have luve in gbe actual world not Trumps who cite gone with the wind like movies deserving an Oscar.
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Post by lagatta on Mar 5, 2020 16:45:23 GMT
30 year olds aren't eligible in US presidential elections - not for Vice-President either. Their minimum eligibility age is 35. Don't think there is any such thing here, except of course to be of voting age.
Latest news - Warren has left the race.
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 5, 2020 17:22:00 GMT
So it's time to choose among the old men, one with daily psychotic episodes (R) and the other one (D) with regular senior moments. This is democracy.
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 5, 2020 17:40:44 GMT
if the Republicans embraced single-payer universal health care I'd vote for them. I hope that when that happens, you will post photos of the pigs with wings. (Or, if the French are involved, "when the hens have teeth.")
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Post by htmb on Mar 5, 2020 17:57:43 GMT
Whoever is elected will have a lasting impact on the Supreme Court, the environment. immigration, Dreamers, social security, health insurance, women’s rights, LGBTQ rights, overall human rights, global relations, gun control, housing, the economy, education, federal judges, etc. etc. He’ll also be responsible, or not, for putting younger, enthusiastic, strong people into prominent positions, and, hopefully, restoring faith in the leaders of this country. Or not. A good leader delegates and defers to experts in their field. I’m guessing either Bernie Sanders or Joe Biden would meet my overall leadership expectations. The current asshole in chief has been even more detrimental to our democracy, and has done more damage to our country, than I ever could have imagined. If he’s re-elected, we’re all pretty doomed here in the USA. While Sanders or Biden are not my perfect ideas of what I’d like to see in a President, they would each make a positive difference if elected. IF elected. A splintered Democratic Party will only bring more of the same horrors we’ve experienced since January 2017. Daily stresses and the fear of what’s coming next.... it’s all too much to handle. We need a break. A leader. Not a destructive coward with a giant ego.
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Post by Kimby on Mar 5, 2020 20:53:53 GMT
Like when we were young under Nixon? 😃😟
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Post by Kimby on Mar 5, 2020 21:01:37 GMT
Htmb , my thoughts exactly. ❤️❤️❤️
(Except I wonder if Bernie COULD beat Trump... Trump’s supporters think he walks on water.)
Lagatta, I don’t think the Millennials intend to actually bomb the establishment out of existence, but they talk of the current system needing to go away so we can start over. That’s easier said than done. Incremental improvements are the best I think we can hope for.
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 5, 2020 21:03:30 GMT
In this new and gentle century, they probably just think that bad things will wither away automatically.
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Post by questa on Mar 5, 2020 23:37:20 GMT
Remember the song from "Hair" called Aquarius? All about the peace and understanding that would come with the new century...I wish I could remember the words...don't we all?
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