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Post by cheerypeabrain on Nov 4, 2020 17:51:37 GMT
It's all very draining on the soul (said the atheist). Talking to my son earlier we both feel that we've been permanently disappointed by our political leaders for years. I found Obama hugely charismatic and likeable(altho I'm sure that not every US voter felt the same) but side from him the UK and US politicians havent engendered admiration, respect or trust. I admire the NZ prime minister and Mrs Merkel...that's about it.
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Post by lugg on Nov 4, 2020 18:22:24 GMT
Anyone opposing universal health care is a monster in my book That is really what I wonder about most to be honest. I don't really understand why so many who would benefit from it are so opposed to it. ( Just to clarify - I don't think those in the general public who are opposed are monsters)
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Post by lugg on Nov 4, 2020 18:25:14 GMT
I admire the NZ prime minister and Mrs Merkel...that's about it. I am with you Cheery particularly in respect of Jacinda Ardern.
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Post by kerouac2 on Nov 4, 2020 18:27:05 GMT
If you label anything "socialist" or even "social" in the United States, it is considered to be a communist plot because the vast majority of people don't even know the difference. Just the fact that there used to be a country called the "Union of Soviet Socialist Republics" sealed the deal for them and no further attempt at understanding was required.
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Post by bjd on Nov 4, 2020 18:58:38 GMT
On the CBC (Canadian state media) website today I saw an article about a couple from the States who moved to Canada. She, the Canadian, is a Democrat, he, the American, voted Trump. But, he said the didn't understand how any wealthy country could not provide health care for its citizens, and that was why they had moved to Canada -- they couldn't afford the healthcare in the US.
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Post by mickthecactus on Nov 4, 2020 21:18:04 GMT
Good speech by Biden just now.
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Post by questa on Nov 5, 2020 12:47:09 GMT
What is the low down on Biden's VP? I've not seen anything in our local press.
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Post by tod2 on Nov 5, 2020 13:08:16 GMT
Yes is our man still ahead and quietly waiting to announce his victory? Please let it be so….
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Post by kerouac2 on Nov 5, 2020 14:03:33 GMT
I'm just thrilled that Trump has not appeared on television for more than 24 hours. That must be the first time in 4 years.
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Post by Biddy on Nov 5, 2020 14:40:36 GMT
Questa - Kamala Harris is a seriously smart woman. She is really good 'on her feet'. When she was district attorney in San Francisco and appearing in court - the courtroom would be jammed with attorneys. The Daily Mail referred to her as 'hard left' which I would dispute. You don't get elected district attorney in San Francisco without the support of the police unions. However, a female judge I know, upon hearing that Kamala was chosen to be Joe's running mate, commented that he had better get a food tester! She is more than capable of taking on the VP position.
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Post by Biddy on Nov 5, 2020 14:46:32 GMT
My apologies I should be responding to Tod2. My coffee has not kicked in yet.
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Post by fumobici on Nov 5, 2020 16:02:24 GMT
Harris, Biden's VP pick, would be closer to hard-right than hard-left in my estimation. There really are almost no left wing DAs in the US, even in the deep blue Bay Area. As a DA you have to play nice with the police unions who are practically white nationalist criminal organizations. She does tick off the identity politics boxes for Democrats naive about policy-based politics though.
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Post by kerouac2 on Nov 5, 2020 16:13:22 GMT
Do you have any suggestion for replacing the profession of District Attorney?
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Post by fumobici on Nov 5, 2020 16:25:51 GMT
I would disagree and say that many if not most of those in the general public who oppose universal health care *are* monsters as well. And it comes down to the reason I think they are opposed, which is their visceral repugnance of what they see as undeserving people, often people of color, getting "free stuff". It's the same frequently racist sentiment that makes them oppose all of the moderate social democratic policies alongside universal health care that were common in post-WWII Europe. I think a significant number of those who oppose a robust social safety net are racists (even if they aren't conscious of it) who cannot stand the thought of their tax monies going to "the wrong people".
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Post by fumobici on Nov 5, 2020 16:36:53 GMT
Do you have any suggestion for replacing the profession of Distict Attorney? The problem isn't the position of DA itself unfortunately, it is far more systemic and intractable: the fact that the whole of US law enforcement and prosecutorial institutions are largely staffed with extreme right-wing "law and order" types who perpetuate shockingly racist policies and implementations of policies as a matter of course. Not only that but the DA offices working in common with politically potent police unions and fraternal organizations almost to a one are guilty of protecting racist and violent police who commit even the most heinous crimes from ever facing even minimal professional accountability, never mind actual criminal prosecution. It's an aberration when even the worst police face anything more than dismissal, where they will ordinarily just move to another PD and continue their racist and criminal behaviors undeterred.
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Post by kerouac2 on Nov 5, 2020 16:52:07 GMT
District Attorneys exist to uphold the law -- strike down the police when they do things wrong or indict criminals when the possibility of wrongdoing has been proven. So the problem would be the law rather than the district attorneys. If disrict attorneys were given total latitude to interpret the law, the whole system would collapse -- but there are judges to mitigate the situations during the next step.
So if Kamala Harris had been a mean bitch judge, I would totally agree with your feelings, but I support her as a mean bitch District Attorney, since she did not make up the laws. Intransigent district attorneys are just as necessary as the lawyers who accept to defend the most horrible criminals.
I am merely a bleeding heart liberal with antifa leanings (antifa is not at all considered to be a negative thing where I live, since the "fa" stands for fascist, for those who don't know). So basically I think that it is a shame to need strict law enforcement in many cases, but I will not deny that it is sometimes necessary.
Frankly, I know nothing about Kamala Harris but I am very curious to know in how many of her cases she was considered to be excessive. 1 out of 5? 1 out of 50? 1 out of 500? Everybody knows that the media and the militants only mention the "bad" ones. Does anybody know?
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Post by mickthecactus on Nov 5, 2020 17:40:55 GMT
He’s getting closer. 253 to 214.
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Post by cheerypeabrain on Nov 5, 2020 21:32:55 GMT
Got everything crossed (hence funny walk)
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Post by questa on Nov 5, 2020 22:36:04 GMT
Cheery, it's the crossed eyes that bother me!
Biddy, Thanks for the info. Cometh the hour, cometh the man, or in this case, the Woman.
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Post by lugg on Nov 6, 2020 20:25:57 GMT
I would disagree and say that many if not most of those in the general public who oppose universal health care *are* monsters as well. And it comes down to the reason I think they are opposed, which is their visceral repugnance of what they see as undeserving people, often people of color, getting "free stuff". It's the same frequently racist sentiment that makes them oppose all of the moderate social democratic policies alongside universal health care that were common in post-WWII Europe. I think a significant number of those who oppose a robust social safety net are racists (even if they aren't conscious of it) who cannot stand the thought of their tax monies going to "the wrong people". Thank you fumobici .. food for thought for me certainly and I can envisage the links between universal healthcare and racism . But is it about historical education / propaganda maybe.? I don't know the answer to this question but I wonder whether the opposition to healthcare is solely from the white / relatively well off population? Is there really a mainstream / majority of American people that really are anti / have a repugnance to social care ? Or is this what they have been conditioned to believe , possibly for several generations ? And if so -- how can that be changed ?
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Post by casimira on Nov 6, 2020 21:41:43 GMT
I know you were addressing Fumobici, Lugg, and, I certainly value his views. I think that many of the people that oppose socialized medicine take on the view that as Fumobici pointed out "they", mostly white upper middle class Americans, don't want their taxes going to pay for "other people's" healthcare. Also, there is a very large population of "baby boomers" over 65 who receive Medicare and also are eligible for free supplemental health care that provides them with added benefits at little to no cost. Many of these people don't want to sacrifice that for the sake of others.
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Post by bixaorellana on Nov 6, 2020 22:55:22 GMT
is this what they have been conditioned to believe , possibly for several generations ? And if so -- how can that be changed ? In brief, Lugg ~ yes. It is indeed also true that there is a deep core of Victorian thinking that "the others" are layabouts, living on the taxpayers' dime, should have saved for a rainy day, yadda di yadda di da. But the brainwashing about universal healthcare ("socialized medicine") is deep and pervasive. The true kool-aid imbibers believe that people in Canada and England are always dropping dead on the street because of having been denied the care they needed. (It's always Canada & England which are cited. At this level of brainwashing you're ignorant of how France, etc. work.) They always know someone who knew someone who was on a three year waiting list in Canada for a pacemaker until he cleverly came to the US and took advantage of our spiffy, modern, fast, and incredibly cheap healthcare system. These are the same people who will brightly tell you, "Oh -- my insurance company paid for [insert medical procedure]!" I.e., they are effing stoooopid and self-defeating.
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Post by kerouac2 on Nov 6, 2020 23:38:11 GMT
Well, the people in England might actually start dropping dead after Brexit. Thousands of them have been coming to France for years to take advantage of EU health coverage when they were told that they would be on the British waiting list for six months for a simple procedure that they could get in Calais or Lille in just a week.
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Post by questa on Nov 7, 2020 0:24:15 GMT
Here there is a trend that for a great deal cheaper you can get absolutely top class treatment in hospitals in Thailand. Patients who are on a long list for elective dental, cosmetic, sexual re-assignment and other non urgent cases are heading for Asian counties. The hospitals have organised "Tours" where you see the sights,have your op,do a couple of gentle tours, get your stitches out then fly home business class.
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Post by htmb on Nov 7, 2020 16:29:07 GMT
CNN has just declared Biden projected winner of Pennsylvania and President elect of the US.
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Post by cheerypeabrain on Nov 7, 2020 16:33:50 GMT
WooHoo !!! I've had CNN on all day. Sooooo pleased for my chums on here...just waiting for Trump to concede...
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Post by mickthecactus on Nov 7, 2020 16:35:55 GMT
And breathe.....
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Post by htmb on Nov 7, 2020 16:41:28 GMT
I doubt Trump will concede, at least not for awhile. In the Republicans’ eyes, the election isn’t over. There will be lawsuits and it will take awhile before the election is certified and the rest of the votes are counted and, possibly, recounted.
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Post by kerouac2 on Nov 7, 2020 16:52:03 GMT
forever young
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Post by kerouac2 on Nov 7, 2020 17:14:00 GMT
Even Fox News has now confirmed Biden's victory.
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