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Post by lugg on Oct 20, 2022 19:57:29 GMT
What we really need is a general election. My son suspects that is not going to happen as it would mean that plus 40 Tory MPs would have to vote themselves out of their jobs. I'm not too sure - its only pin money for many of them anyway. And I think they really don't know what to do next and want to let someone else sort out their mess. Hunt - weasel that he is, has said he is not standing as a PM candidate and Boris is, maybe. That says it all. Headless chickens. Some really interesting editorials in the European press , who link it ( this shit show) back to Brexit mistakes. I am in total agreement with many of them.
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Post by kerouac2 on Oct 20, 2022 20:03:25 GMT
I think it's nice that Liz Truss is entitled to a yearly pension of £115,000 for her time as Prime Minister. She really served her country.
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Post by bjd on Oct 21, 2022 6:34:21 GMT
All the commentary I have heard or read agrees with your son, Lugg. No general election because the Tories know that so many of them will lose their seats and it's up to the Tories to agree to an election.
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Post by questa on Oct 21, 2022 19:14:49 GMT
Winston and all the great PMs of the past must be spinning in their graves.
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Post by kerouac2 on Oct 21, 2022 19:48:54 GMT
I think the British were just jealous of Trump and American politics and needed a new media buzz with QE2 gone. The only problem is that if Boris stages a comeback, it will completely unleash the comeback of Trump by proving that it is possible.
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Post by cheerypeabrain on Oct 21, 2022 19:51:19 GMT
Each contender for the PM position will need nominations from 100 colleagues in order to be entered onto the ballot paper. Both Sunak and Mordaunt achieved more than 100 votes in the last leadership election...Boris is unlikely to get 100 MPs to back him...altho stranger things have happened. Allegedly 2 candidates will be put forward to the tory party members (of ALL people!).....I doubt Sunak will be voted in....even tho he's probably the best candidate...
Ben Wallace is another 'popular' choice amongst his Tory colleagues but he has ruled himself out.
The new PM will have to prove him or herself pretty quickly because the British public are heartily sick of being bypassed by the tory party for years. I think that a general election is on the cards in the not too distant future.
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Post by kerouac2 on Oct 21, 2022 19:57:19 GMT
I find it rather naive of the current government to think that they can hold out until the next official legislative election if there is a popular revolt. Those can get nasty.
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Post by cheerypeabrain on Oct 21, 2022 19:59:57 GMT
I'll unpack my knitting needles.....
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Post by patricklondon on Oct 22, 2022 4:34:47 GMT
I find it rather naive of the current government to think that they can hold out until the next official legislative election if there is a popular revolt. Those can get nasty. So far, the Farages (and worse) of this world have been quiet (there isn't anything as simplistic as Brexit for them to rally round), but give it time ..
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Post by patricklondon on Oct 22, 2022 6:33:00 GMT
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Post by mickthecactus on Oct 22, 2022 7:01:49 GMT
😂😂
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Post by patricklondon on Oct 22, 2022 7:32:35 GMT
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Post by mossie on Oct 22, 2022 9:00:50 GMT
Thanks Patrick, that sums it up nicely
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Post by onlyMark on Oct 22, 2022 14:52:11 GMT
I do wonder what would have happened if Brexit never existed. I just can't see that the UK, with all that's happening due to covid/Russia/immigration etc etc wouldn't have been roughly in the same position, especially because of the standard of politicians we have. At least we didn't elect far-right leader Giorgia Meloni. I'm waiting for someone to tie that into Brexit as well.
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Post by kerouac2 on Oct 22, 2022 15:40:20 GMT
Well, while that is not part of British politics, Giorgia Meloni has already made it clear that she will not be as radical as she appeared to be, and she has already refused all of the top posts to the biggest right wing crazies in Italy. And that is because she knows how important the EU is for Italy.
The United Kingdom failed to understand this.
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Post by onlyMark on Oct 22, 2022 16:48:03 GMT
Giorgia Meloni has already made it clear that she will not be as radical as she appeared to be - and you trust a politician when they say that? Naive at best. Foolish at worst those that accept that as truth. On a more extreme note, that's exactly what the Taliban said and in that thread on here I said they'd go back to their old ways as soon as they came into power. She will as well. The reasons for Brexit we've gone into at length, one being knowledge of how important the EU is/was for the UK but but still voting en masse to leave. Millions of people. The focus is too much on the practical aspects to understand why and seem to think they are the only reason, hence they don't understand, but practicality was not the only factor in decisions of that sort. Not by a long chalk.
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Post by kerouac2 on Oct 22, 2022 17:17:42 GMT
You don't seem to know much about the instability of Italian politics, do you? All it takes is one party to pull out of the current coalition, the government collapses and there will be a new election. Meloni is walking on a tightrope.
And we know that practicality was ignored in the Brexit vote. It was mostly a case of national pride for the leavers who couldn't stand not being important in the EU -- or at least less important than Germany and France.
I will always marvel how the winning side in any election will say they won a massive victory and voted en masse, for example, to leave the EU. For fuck's sake it was 51.9% to 48.1%. Obviously it was a clear victory, but whenever anybody is on the losing side, they say that the winners barely squeaked by. And that is true of every election everywhere (for example Sarkozy-Royal 53% to 47% in 2007).
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Post by onlyMark on Oct 22, 2022 18:10:58 GMT
You don't seem to know much about the instability of Italian politics, do you? Nope. But I know about leopards and spots. All it takes is one party to pull out of the current coalition If. It was mostly a case of national pride for the leavers who couldn't stand not being important in the EU -- or at least less important than Germany and France. Nope.
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Post by onlyMark on Oct 22, 2022 19:12:22 GMT
By the way, my mistake with using en masse. It doesn't fit with the circumstances.
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Post by kerouac2 on Oct 22, 2022 19:54:48 GMT
We all misspeak sometimes.
Meanwhile, to return to the off topic subject of Italy, since the end of World War 2, Italy has had 69 governments, at an average of one every 1.11 years. And that is why I don't worry too much about Ms. Meloni. And there is a new legislative election every time the government falls.
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Post by htmb on Oct 22, 2022 20:11:18 GMT
Do we have an "Italian politics" thread? If not, I’d be interested in starting one.
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Post by onlyMark on Oct 22, 2022 20:13:41 GMT
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Post by kerouac2 on Oct 22, 2022 20:17:16 GMT
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Post by kerouac2 on Oct 22, 2022 20:18:53 GMT
Do we have an "Italian politics" thread? If not, I’d be interested in starting one. No, we don't have one, but it would certainly be an interesting topic, especially since none of us are experts.
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Post by mickthecactus on Oct 22, 2022 20:21:25 GMT
That is good Mark. Top dog never came into it.
However, I have yet to see much benefit although circumstances have hardly helped.
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Post by fumobici on Oct 23, 2022 14:56:58 GMT
Well, while that is not part of British politics, Giorgia Meloni has already made it clear that she will not be as radical as she appeared to be, and she has already refused all of the top posts to the biggest right wing crazies in Italy. And that is because she knows how important the EU is for Italy. The United Kingdom failed to understand this. Meloni, as awful as she is, is far smarter and abler than any UK Tory politician vying to be the next PM.
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Post by lugg on Oct 23, 2022 19:51:19 GMT
Back to British Politics - and its hard to know at the moment what the outcome will be tomorrow, essentially if Sunak is the only candidate to get more than 100 votes he will be in. If Bo Jo gets 100 MPs support it seems likely that he will win the vote of the party;however Bo Jo has still not confirmed he is standing. Mordaunt does not seem to have the support she needs to get passed the first hurdle. www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/oct/23/rishi-sunak-surges-ahead-in-tory-leadership-race-as-rivals-struggle-to-gain-supportWhat happens when nominations close?If by the deadline only one candidate manages to gain the support of at least 100 of their colleagues, that person will become the next leader of the Conservative party and the country. If more than one candidate passes the 100 threshold, then between 3.30pm and 5.30pm on Monday 24 October there will be a vote among Tory MPs, with results announced at 6pm. If there are three candidates, the person with the fewest votes will be eliminated and there will be a further round of votes between the final two between 6.30pm and 8.30pm, with the result announced at 9pm. Then what?If, after that process, two candidates still remain – meaning nobody has withdrawn – the 1922 Committee (the Conservative party’s 18-member executive, which is running the process) is leaving the final decision to Conservative party members. Last time, in September, the party membership voted for Truss, despite Sunak leading among MPs. This final round of voting by qualifying members would, the party says, be done using a “secure online voting” system, with the ballot closing at 11am on Friday 28 October. The result would then be announced later the same day. So essentially if BO Jo does enter and then gets 100 and does not withdraw it will be down to party members who it is predicted generally will vote for Bo Jo. There would also be at least one hustings between the final two, expected to be broadcast by the BBC. Please correct me if I have got any of this wrong.
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Post by lugg on Oct 23, 2022 20:18:56 GMT
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Post by bixaorellana on Oct 23, 2022 22:46:02 GMT
Is there a giant fog bank hanging over the entire country - - the one formed by the collective sigh of relief?
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Post by bjd on Oct 24, 2022 6:01:07 GMT
Maybe not a sigh of relief but at least if Sunak screws up, they will be forced to call another election instead of waiting until 2024.
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