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Post by onlymark on Sept 27, 2010 14:25:51 GMT
Sure that happens, but what also happens is posters (young and old) frolicking in a serious thread, using it as a playground, which sometimes amounts to sabotage of the thread if there's enough of it in an early stage. That really gets up my nose. It's not so bad near the end of a long thread... So as this thread has been going for 23 days and 5 pages, does that qualify as not being in the early stage and is near the end? (Though how you know a thread is near the end escapes me for the moment). If so, then I'd like to mention that this thread fails to conform to Godwins Law. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
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Post by onlymark on Sept 27, 2010 14:26:15 GMT
Sorry, now six pages.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2010 14:32:31 GMT
Hitler certainly would not have allowed this thread to continue.
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Post by betsie on Sept 27, 2010 14:38:54 GMT
Sure that happens, but what also happens is posters (young and old) frolicking in a serious thread, using it as a playground, which sometimes amounts to sabotage of the thread if there's enough of it in an early stage. That really gets up my nose. It's not so bad near the end of a long thread... So as this thread has been going for 23 days and 5 pages, does that qualify as not being in the early stage and is near the end? (Though how you know a thread is near the end escapes me for the moment). If so, then I'd like to mention that this thread fails to conform to Godwins Law. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_lawStop nit-picking and see about that tea you were supposed to be making. I'll have a biscuit with mine too, please.
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Post by onlymark on Sept 27, 2010 14:47:27 GMT
I've got Jaffa cakes and chocolate Hobnobs ready to hand. If you require anything more exotic, like Rich Tea, I'll have to have them flown in.
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Post by onlymark on Sept 27, 2010 14:50:29 GMT
Jeez K2, you've gone and ruined it! You did that on purpose! We now conform, and I hate being a conformist. I will never ever interact with your on-line persona again. You are just too evil.
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Post by mich64 on Sept 27, 2010 19:30:02 GMT
I am rediscovering my persona as I have lost portions of it do to illness.... What this port has done for me in the few weeks that I have been a part of it is that it has provided me with enjoyment! and a new educational tool... for which I am grateful Maybe in a few years I will recognize the factors that are contained in a persona.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2010 19:45:39 GMT
You're doing just fine, mich64. Just don't get contaminated by some of us survivors of other forums!
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Post by mich64 on Sept 27, 2010 20:13:02 GMT
Thank you Kerouac, I will remember your advice.
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Post by Jazz on Sept 27, 2010 21:17:44 GMT
Mich, I think you will find, as we all do, that your online persona somehow emerges in a delicate way. Calculation is not involved, it just happens. I’m happy that you choose to participate, your presence is unique and welcome. Yes, I think that the Port is unusual, and no, I’m not imagining things. There are many examples of the ‘shutdown’, one excellent illustration is the time of the ‘Women craving violence’ thread, anyportinastorm.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=debate&action=display&thread=4043&page=1For the following week, only 5 members logged in and posted on a daily basis, (I was one) with a Grand Total of perhaps 15 posts a day? Also, one of our 2 moderators was overwrought and decided to go MIA for this week. (I could cite a few other examples of controversial threads.) I disagree with Mark’s comment , ….’ that in a forum where there aren't so many members who regularly contribute, and that many things are known about each other, any disagreement seems to become more personal - and what happens in real life? - when forceful disagreement occurs you get the odd one or two who step in to take sides or placate the antagonists, but most just step back from it’….. ….”in real life’ (?) When a forceful disagreement occurs…most just step back from it’… Not in my real life. This is my point. If you are at a party and 2 or 3 people begin a heated discussion, you may back off, go to another room, move to another part of the party and continue your evening…. You don’t grab your coats and walk out of the house. It’s the ‘grab my coat and walk out of the house’ that happens here and is intriguing. I don’t buy the ‘deeply personal’ relationship idea that Mark advances to explain this situation on this forum. I don’t feel that I know the intimate details of other members’ lives here. Maybe others feel this, I don’t. While one can come to ‘know’ another person online in a sense, this will never come close to knowing another person in real life. Mark mentioned the difference when you have met another poster and have ‘broken bread’. This does mean something to me and I totally agree, it is never the same as only knowing one another by typing on a computer. With the Port, I have the feeling that most people have never met each other and so Mark’s arguments are not valid here. But, I have met 2 other members and understand what he means. I will never be able to react to their posts in the same way that I react to others. It has become personal and shifted into another realm. And, you can’t go back. Que sera, sera. Some people have been traumatized by other forums and, being one of those people, you never, ever forget those attacks. The ‘age’ idea is different and open to interpretation. I don’t feel that older people are more sensitive and retreat more easily. It’s a matter of individual personality. I am very sympatico with many of Betsie’s comments. Often people seem to be very anxious and dismissive about what they see as ‘unpleasant’ posts. I would hope that there is room for Vigorous Discussion and if it upsets you, don’t read the thread. ‘Pleasant’ and ‘nice’ may be part of boring, uncommitted discussion that lacks integrity for me. I have friends who retreat instantly at anything controversial or powerful, they simply cannot handle it. They are part of what I call the Grand equalizer theory. Ie: They intone discreetly and gently, ‘considerately’ ignoring your passion... ‘ah well, we all have problems'... How weak and oblivious is that? Hmmm……here I am, wrong yet again?…my walking ability is dreadful, not able to work and I sit in my own house, with a powerful support group of friends and the power of my own sense of self. Surely this is as worthy of concern as a woman in Africa, living in squalor, was recently raped, has Aids, does not know where the next meal is coming from (actually, never did) and cannot even find a drink of clean and pure water? I don't think so. Yes, ‘we all have problems’. And some have more than others. The word 'relative' says it all for me. Forums or threads that cannot deal with 'unpleasant' and 'relativity' are instantly wiped from my consciousness. We obviously live in different worlds and have a different awareness of life.
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Post by Jazz on Sept 28, 2010 3:49:33 GMT
Just one more thought...I find the 'burying' technique fascinating.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2010 5:01:41 GMT
How can you bury a thread? Anybody can revive any thread that is still on the board. Do you think that nobody should comment on another thread until you have decided that people can move on?
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Post by Jazz on Sept 28, 2010 5:45:36 GMT
How can you ‘bury a thread’? Well Kerouac, you have adroitly shown one fabulous and common way. Respond vigorously to one final offhand remark of one line by a poster (jazz) and totally ignore the previous 50 line post by a poster (jazz). Then, you respond immediately to another post in the same board (in this case, 'Feel like shit for only 0.53E') and magically it all goes away. Good one! Do you think that nobody should comment on another thread until you have decided that people can move on? Of course not. But speaking honestly, rather than being distracted by this post, I personally would feel more gratified if you or anyone else actually read and thought about my post #159. I'm not that fascinated by exchanging sound bytes. Did you actually read #159?
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Post by onlymark on Sept 28, 2010 6:43:10 GMT
I never said 'deeply personal' Jazz, I said more personal - it's relative. I also said about stepping back from it and you gave the analogy of a party where you'd go to another room, not grab your coat and leave - how do you know that they have left and not just 'gone to another room' by simply paying attention to other threads, whether they post or not, lurk or not? They may well still be here and haven't flounced off.
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Post by onlymark on Sept 28, 2010 6:43:49 GMT
And how does replying on a different thread bury another?
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Post by Jazz on Sept 28, 2010 8:06:17 GMT
I never said 'deeply personal' Jazz, I said more personal - it's relative. I also said about stepping back from it and you gave the analogy of a party where you'd go to another room, not grab your coat and leave - how do you know that they have left and not just 'gone to another room' by simply paying attention to other threads, whether they post or not, lurk or not? They may well still be here and haven't flounced off. I understand relativity. Obviously, I don’t know if they have left, or lurk…probably many lapse into lurking, but I have no idea why. I have never understood the sudden and deafening silence on the entire forum. I do notice if the forum suddenly consists of 5 posters only, on a daily basis, for a week. This usually happens after controversial threads. Given that the member count is usually 20-25 a day, it is painfully obvious when it drops to 5...don’t you think? or am I ‘imagining’ this? They haven’t ‘gone to another room’ and are paying attention to other threads. Err....they might be , but who would know, there is no posting. Mark:...'And how does replying on a different thread bury another?'... You have far, far more experience with forums and posting than I do. Your question is deliberately ‘innocent’ and provocative. You know the answer. Now, to reply to the ‘men’, Kerouac and Mark, who always heartily enjoy a tag- team approach. Your last few posts are extremely well crafted ‘burying’ attempts. Focus on a minor remark, do the vague-out, rely on each other to pick up the slack, humor and one liners are your specialty, divert attention gently but patronizingly to the ’supposed flaws’ of a less experienced poster (in this case, jazz)…best (!!!) if the poster is female, thus you heavily rely on female support of males on forums, unfortunate, but very predictable. Given that there are far more females than males on most forums, the support is usually overwhelming. It now reduces to me defending myself on one small issue (one fucking remark about burying threads) and you have successfully distracted everyone from the point of the latter part of this 6 page thread. Kerouac and Mark, you’re very good! Err…can you somehow get over your fascination with 'one burying thread remark' and have some thoughts about the latter part of the thread?...the essential issues?
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Post by betsie on Sept 28, 2010 8:49:57 GMT
A tag-team approach was what drove me from one forum: two radical lefties used to sabotage threads of posters they didn't like, and the mods allowed it to happen. I started a thread on multi-culturalism, with a link to a long and very interesting article on the subject. These two guys began a long exchange with each other in my thread about bacon sandwiches, with or without ketchup, brown bread or white, grilled or fried bacon, etc. The thread was killed off before it even had a chance to get off the ground.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2010 9:28:09 GMT
I have seen that on plenty of sites, but there is no tag team here. However, there are a few people who become very irritated if nobody wants them as a sparring partner.
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Post by betsie on Sept 28, 2010 9:45:03 GMT
I have seen that on plenty of sites, but there is no tag team here. However, there are a few people who become very irritated if nobody wants them as a sparring partner. I wasn't implying there were any tag teams her, I was simply commenting on this phenomenon. There are so few posters here that I'm wondering who is actually regarded as normal, once all the obnoxious or tiresome or too old or too young posters mentioned in this thread have been accounted for.
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Post by onlymark on Sept 28, 2010 10:17:51 GMT
My post at 163 was comment on what you said and then I posted about the burying issue - I have no diversion tactic and why would I? The post at 163 was a more important post, hence it came first. What followed was less important, so it came after. I can't see the point of you thinking we are trying to divert you, I can't see the point from our point of view - what reason would we have for doing so? It's not a deliberate attempt too divert you, the is no subtext or hidden agenda, there is also no tag teaming.
Just because there are only two people replying to you, and maybe disagreeing with you (I suppose you could say, offering a different opinion), doesn't mean there is a tag team. If there are more disagreeing it doesn't mean there is a mob after you.
However, when I said (and don't take this as a diversion, you commented last on this) "And how does replying on a different thread bury another?" you said I was being provocative. I don't understand how you bury a thread by replying on another. I don't. I reply on thread A Then I reply on thread B How has thread A been buried? Why can't I just go back to it? A thread stands by itself. I can understand it being diverted or whatever, but surely all you do is click back on it and it's there again, in plain sight. Why is it buried?
Anyway, to come back to diversions. A thread, like a conversation, goes off in different directions. It may be someone said something that is a conversation stopper or something that no-one has an opinion on particularly. Any number of reasons. Yes, it can be aggravating, yes, it can detract from the pleasure of the thread. But to do it on purpose? As a way to avoid the main issue? No. Neither myself, and I would expect K2, have need to do this. We are not backward in coming forward. Maybe we or whoever just have nothing to say about what you said, it might just be as simple as that. There is no obligation to reply to every comment, no matter how important the writer might think it is.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2010 10:24:06 GMT
Several things mentioned here that are fascinating indeed. The tag team approach,not to be confused with the pack mentality(a whole different can of worms there!) one sometimes sees on forums. It is very subtle,oft times not even conscious on the part of the participants,but,has a way of gaining momentum,which fuels the players,and the result often times,ultimately annihilates or derails the thread. Again,let me reiterate,I don't think it's conscious at all (except in some rare cases). It almost a form of sport between two posters and is usually quite innocent. The thread burying technique...this also takes on different forms. Most times it's a conscious attempt by one of the moderators or another member(s),to try and take the focus off of a certain thread which may be considered as particularly controversial and raise issues that cause other members anxiety. A sticky wicket of sorts.Sometimes, damage control measures are taken by one of the mods in dealing with it. This was real obvious in the Feedjit thread. Posting in another thread is one way of burying "it". It's usually pretty obvious to me when it's going on. Sometimes I will do it when I see a thread that is boring me to death and I want to steer the board in a different direction for my own selfish pleasure. As mentioned,it takes on many different forms. Fascinating stuff really. I am always intrigued by it all. If I may,I would like to add one more thought to the tag team approach. In many ways it does take on a very hostile tone,can do damage ultimately if it gets out of hand. It can and does take on a ganging up on tone, and finally, is very often very sophomoric in nature. All very much in evidence in the above exchange from my perspective.
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Post by fumobici on Sept 28, 2010 16:23:59 GMT
Sticks and stones eh?
What really strikes me is that the discourse here is so genteel and reserved by broader internet forum standards, even at its most contentious.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2010 16:40:39 GMT
Bigger forums have big fights. Small forums can't really afford to.
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Post by onlymark on Sept 28, 2010 17:21:51 GMT
Am I reading all this wrong? Am I being accused of picking on Jazz? And joining up with K2 to do so? Is that how it looks?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2010 17:49:20 GMT
You'll have to ask Jazz. Her mind is a minefield, tag team pal.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2010 20:45:38 GMT
If this had been the very first time I had seen this type of exchange,I would probably have overlooked it,and not taken on this perception. But,seeing that it has occurred before in the past,I would say that yes,it does appear to be some form of tag teaming going on here. Unconscious as it may be,it does come across that way to me,yes.
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Post by onlymark on Sept 28, 2010 20:56:01 GMT
If it is the case that it appears that way then I shall desist forthwith (and advise K2 to bury this thread so that it never sees the light of day again, apparently he's good at that sort of thing).
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Post by Kimby on Sept 29, 2010 2:55:18 GMT
Or we could just resume discussion of "your online persona" and give this argument a rest.
We can disagree without being disagreeable. Some of the time.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2010 10:54:32 GMT
Or we could just resume discussion of "your online persona" and give this argument a rest. We can disagree without being disagreeable. Some of the time. I see no reason why not Kimby. I really didn't see it as an argument anyway,just a perception/observation,perhaps gone a bit awry. It wouldn't be the first time. I don't have a problem speaking my mind. I rather like this thread anyway,I would like to see more exploration of it,sticking with the OP as best we can though,preferred.
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Post by onlymark on Oct 2, 2010 9:30:54 GMT
So, what was the question?
Oh yes, online character. Mine is no different in either world. My character flaws (few as they are) are not masked by being on line. Conversely my good points, especially modesty, are laid out for all to see, including arrogance.
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